Tim Keogh: Building Trust and Crafting Culture

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concrete pump driver. He doesn't have to be screwed in concrete. My concerter is probably a little understaffed at the moment. He just had someone leave a couple months ago to been with him for five years.

Um, so he's getting the job done for us, which is great. He's there 5:30 in the morning and the pump driver gets out and he notices everyone's a little bit under staff. So he gets the rake and he starts screening it all for good. Just Yeah, that's work ethic and that's that's getting it done.

All right, guys. Uh got Tim Keogh here, Empyrean uh build. Um yeah, been been with Connect Business Insurance as a builder for four years. Um he had a close relationship, which we always talk about, with one of the brokers here for the last 10 years, we just said, which is pretty cool.

Uh me and Tim the last six months, 12 months probably talked more than we ever have. And uh I only just went down to his office and seen it and had a really good chat what, three months ago, two months ago, something like that. Y and um we had a really good chat and he was telling me, you know, he's got things sorted, you know, personal life, house, business, and um and then I've been talking to him lately and he's under the pump. He can't keep up.

No, not at all. But it's it's the way it changes. As soon as you talk about it, you curse it. Yeah.

Um I suppose the the different bit here is I probably don't know Tim as much as I know some of the um people that have come on the on the pod, but that's what I like about it. So there's a lot probably a lot to learn. There's no rule book here. No questions that have been set up.

So just kicking off. I suppose we just talked about my other mate that was on here. Give us the year you year you started the the company. I actually called and confirmed with my wife before I got here.

I was like 2016 or 2018, but I'm pretty confident 2018. Yeah. So when you kicked off 2018 and what I'll do, dude, you and I don't mean to be rude and you'll get it is I'll probably stop and start because I I'm pretty good at linking where we're at. So if it 2018 you kicked off, what were you doing?

What was the beginning before that or just when I actually started the building company? No. So let's start there and then we'll Okay. Well, pretty much um got all my kickoff from one of my sister's old bosses to be fair actually.

When I was when I was a carpenter like um he's a bit of a hot shot lawyer um in in the city. Y um it was a raining day and my sister mentioned that he one of his sliding doors wasn't working. So I called her like he's a really nice fell and I'm like just called my sister up. I'm like, "Hey, we've got a bit of time tomorrow if you want.

It's just it's like $40 rain book." So, second story inserts for someone and stuff at the time. And um yeah, he's like, "Oh, I'll meet you there." So, I've got there and it's um a sliding door big like beach front house in Cottis though, right? And he said it's a sliding door. I'm expecting a normal sliding door.

This thing is like a sliding wall. It's like 3.6 by 3.6. And anyway, I've sort of just gone and done that and didn't didn't charge him literally purely. He's a really nice fell.

Um we had a bit of time up our sleeves. So we did that and um literally in the next week we got our first building jobs by one of his friends for like 45 grand. Yeah. Funny.

And literally every single job after that has kicked off from those. I can sort of get back to those those. So excuse the pun, but yeah, one door slides closed and the other one opens and you took it. And we only talked about this in the last podcast with Mo, didn't we Mitch?

How the the doors close and open and you either take the opportunity or you don't. And obviously um you know you being you and your personality what I know so far is you know just getting there and getting it done. Yeah. Making it happen.

Yeah. And then the opportunity arises. That would be my biggest strength. I'd say sort of like if there's a chance there.

Yeah. And and uh and you know don't mind giving, helping, supporting, especially family, but just good people and then don't want nothing in return, but it does come around. I think the least profitable jobs I've ever done have all been for the people I like the most. Just Yeah.

Every one of them. Yeah. Yeah. So, what happened there?

So, you got a job 45 grand. Was that a rena or uh just a rena like um putting an on suite master on suite in a master bedroom. So, chasing through the whole house with like taking all the concrete out and just um rebuilt a bathroom in there. Yeah.

It was a good one. Just needs for Yeah. Nice. Yep.

And then we worked for them. I think we've went back to that place and did another renovation. Then we built them a big big joint in Mo Park. So, they're a lovely couple.

Oh, awesome. So, so obviously you didn't just learn that then. like what what got you into kicking kicking off and doing that? Like where were you prior?

So you're a carpenter, you said. Yes. So I was carpenter, worked for my brother's company for a bit and also Summit Homes like um back in the day just I used to do build second story inserts. I had a team of four BS and we just um yeah did all the renovations and that sort of thing.

Yep. Went to night school for four night four years four or five years I think to get my builder's ticket and it sort of just all happened. And I was originally going to just stay on the tools and do a few jobs a year and within six months that was done straight off the tools. Yeah.

Yeah. So you didn't have a choice. Went with it. Yeah.

Got got driven. So So and you went and build a place in Mozy, did you say? Yeah. That was just a big rena for those guys during the like just as co started kicking off which brought Yeah, that's right.

Yep. Yep. Um so was it like from 18 to then was it mainly Renos that got you kicked off? Yeah, pretty much mate.

We predominantly did those because that's what we know. smaller ones and then like sort of went on to the bigger more luxury Rena like three or four years later. We find that in the insurance like I was even chat I had a meeting this morning with Port City these young lads that have kicked off last 12 months and they're doing the rens as well. They're actually down your way.

Um there and the the rena piece and proving yourself is a really good way to get into doing the full builds and not just on your side and clients but even on our side for insurance home indemnity you know the limits are easier to get understand the scope structure and then you prove yourself after 6 12 you know 18 months. The good thing is too you can start small and sort of understand what you a little bit more. Yeah. You still got to you still got to do a good job quality and all that I see.

and you're living in people's house, so they're like not living in people working in people's houses. So, you can't really get away from it. Like, that's what I'm always like badgering on about just keeping clean because the reality is if something's not 100% right, sometimes people would notice that would fix it anyway. But they will notice if the house is clean.

And let me tell you, this guy here, he's attention to detail is second to none. Fussy fell. I thought I was bad and even the other builder I had on. But yeah, you're up there for sure.

I can't let much go. Um I suppose on that there that's with with people like yourself that's where you find it really hard to get get people hey because you're standard. Yeah I'm picky bugger. Yeah it makes it hard and I'm probably the hardest on carpenters and that as well because I used to be one and I know what can be done efficiently and what can't be like and I just that yeah I probably the hardest on those guys or buggers.

It's like uh even when I was in workshops or you know being a fitter it was the same thing you know like and running people like you have this set way but there's a reason for it right and a standard but you when you when you do it your way you wouldn't ask someone else to do it how you like that you couldn't do you know what I mean at all. Yeah. And that's that that's what makes it tricky though like if you're half decent trading then you see BS doing a little bit rough sometimes it's a very hard to not um badger. Yep.

So, okay. So, we go back. I'm going to I'm going to go backwards a little bit here. Uh, so when you How old are you now?

36. 37. 37. You're on this spring chicken.

Yeah. Um, so we go back 2018 and then before that, uh, so about for about four years, you say? Yeah. With your brother school?

I actually came over here when I was younger. So, I moved over here like um with my brother who taught me my apprentichip like um when I was 16. So, and where were you to tell me? Country Victoria Bendigo.

Bendigo. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

Cuz I'm allong. That's right. We did talk about that. Yeah.

Yep. So, so what year did you come over? Oh, mate. That would have been 18 years ago now.

So, yeah. So, I was 04. What's that? 22 years.

So, 08. So, roughly 08. 0708, I think. Yeah.

Okay. Cool. And then when you were over in Bendigo, so what how old were you when you come over then? 16.

Just so you were really young. Yeah. Okay. So, you just kind of done school, done all that stuff there.

Yeah. I left school at 16. So like finished year 10 then came over like I was just getting in trouble at school so my brother said to come over and do an apprentichip and um yeah worked out a treat. I was always decent at school but uh just found it hard to find the motivation to be there.

Yeah. And focus. Yeah. Big time.

Yeah. Got a bit of energy. So get in trouble. So what what besides your brother saying it, what really in your head made you move?

What were you were you were you like stuck at home? Had to be convinced to come over like Oh, not at all. My um I've got fantastic parents like um really really good. They sort of raised everybody to be pretty independent and like um it was just an opportunity.

Mom Mom did not want me to go at all. Neither did that. And um but it was just something cool. So I thought I'd give it a go.

Bit of adventure. Yeah. And how are your parents later? They're like they actually the whole family moved over.

So yeah, my whole family's very very close. And um how good? I'm actually living in mom and dad's at the moment while we're trying to sort a subdivision out. Yep.

Yep. Oh, that's that's great. And good story. Brought everyone over.

Yeah, it was good. Yeah. Cool. Family?

Yep. What do you got? Uh yeah, all I got um three sisters, one brother, so I'm the fifth of five, the youngest. Probably why I talk so much.

Um yeah, all all own businesses. You're like the one that got away with them being the youngest. Yeah, I've always had that. But yeah.

Yeah, for sure. I think that's a common thing, isn't it? Yeah. It's just you because you can get away with more.

There's not as many eyes on you, you know. But how many kids you got? So I've got two, but I'm probably looking at having another two. Y Oh, yeah.

Yeah, we sp about that. You love it. You get the Brady Bunch. Yeah.

Love It's a It's funny when you have your first kid, it's like heaps different than you have the next one. And I I've only got two, but like even talking to other people and um I think parents learn you don't have to be as fussy or restrict or as the youngest one gets around and gets away with a bit more. And I think that might be you. Yeah, guaranteed.

Yeah. Or you just learn to push the like your parents don't have as much um disposable time so you just push the limits a little bit more I think. And that's just how it goes. What um what was it like growing up with all your siblings?

Oh, fantastic. like um everyone like I think you had your normal sibling fights and things like that but my um sister and brother my brother still works out at my gym three days a week as well. I see my sister regularly like these are all pretty evenly close. Yeah, very got each other's back.

Yeah, that's pretty cool. Hey, that's that's awesome to hear cuz I think uh especially moving the dynamics but you guys are in the similar similar industries are you? Yeah, brother's building as well. And then my sister has um yeah, they've got their more commercial space like like in the mines and stuff like that.

One sister that's in the Cayman Islands because her husband's a lawyer over there and another sister over here too that's um she became like stay at home mom after but she used to have a few hairdressing salons as well. So yep, bit going on there. Yeah, that the lawyer come in handy. Yes.

Very. Yeah. So to be fair, we haven't really ever needed it. think we needed it at once, but um she's always she's uh very very levelheaded.

So, always good to bounce ideas off. Yep. Before it goes any further. Yeah, I'm I'm fortunate.

My family all very good. Call me my brother and sisters anytime and they'll all help and listen. Yep. So, in the cuz Pur's pretty spread out.

So, are you is far from each other like I know you're staying with mom and dad, but Yeah. Well, at the moment, that's why I find it. Yeah. It's um staying at mom and dad's at the moment.

One of my other sisters is on the block too and then the other ones are only 5ks away and then the other one's only 10ks away. So, not far at all. So you're all close 100%. So do you just have the traditional Sunday family dinners?

Not as much anymore. I think I'm sc my family scaring everybody away from mom and dad's cuz there's too many of us in there. So we're living in a donga. But um yeah, there's a few of us in a small space.

So yeah. Cool. When you reckon you will jump out of that and be back? So hopefully we are.

It's actually just that's what you saw me doing before. I was just signing a form to get a subdivision across the line. Um so to send back to my town planner. So hopefully let's hope for a development approval in a few months.

Yeah. Nice. And um that's hard work a lot of the time. Hey, depending on the area of the council at the m chaos.

So I must admit that's what I sold my house thinking it was only going to take six months. That's why like I'm um when I say to clients I understand how frustrating it is living in a place for a little bit longer. I get it. We were doing it for a year and a half now.

Um we had 17 conditions imposed on one of the sites. So, so like by the time that gets done, we had a floor and fauna survey that needed to be addressed and um we missed the month of the inspection by like one month. So, we had to pretty much wait 12 months to get that. Yeah.

It's just it's just a process. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Yep. All right, let's let's slow down a bit and go back into business, right? It's um it's a it's a big part of why I started started this. Um obviously, I don't there's no such thing as your 9 to5 and like personal wise here and business is in this window.

That's just not like it. Especially when you're head driven like we are. I think we're a bit likeminded, you know. Um you want to get something done, you get it done, and there's probably no rules around it.

But I was at site this morning at 5:30 for concrete pour. Yeah. Didn't really need to be there, but um it's just nice to make sure everything's going smoothly. How'd that go?

Good. Yeah, really well. Yeah, the guys are fantastic. How many squares is that?

That was a 250 square pour, I think. But there's a around the property we're doing now, just the external driveway is like 600 700 meters. So, yeah. Wow.

Massive. Decent. Yeah. So, so from 2018 you kicked off, you got the hungry stage, which you know we all we all go through and then you're like you're taking on more work.

The mozzy build would have been a pretty decent Renault, wouldn't it? Yeah, very nice. We actually put a wine we put a we put a um wine room in there, living the room floor of like for free as well cuz like they were our first real big Renault and um yeah, I expected that to just cost a few grand. Did it?

Yeah, I was wrong. Love job but that kicked my ass. Yeah. Yeah.

No, but I'd still do it again. Lovely, lovely clients. We still speak to this day. Oh, awesome.

So, yeah, going back to the whole relationship bit that we were talking about earlier. Yeah. Big time. Really important.

Hey. Yeah. Like to be fair, most of the clients we um really try to get on with every now and then. You find a few that you um just butttheads with a little bit, but I think that's just life is what it is.

Yeah. But as long as you're not um not doing it all the time, I think it's to be expected. You run into people that you sometimes can't manage as effectively as you'd like to. Everyone's got different expectations or they receive something different.

And usually the way I I believe gets fixed comes down to the communication piece. Even like with us in insurance like you know me and you went through we went through a claim recently and it was just comms back and forth you know% all the time dealing with the insurer and back and fors and your expectation my expectation I got to be the guy in the middle and then you got the insurers and like we we know where that started off first off. I think you sorted that out pretty well. They end up at a reasonable figure and that's okay.

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. But, you know, if we if we didn't communicate well, we wouldn't have got there because I don't I can't remember what they come back first.

It was Yeah, low ass. But it was low as to be to be expected. It sure is govern. Yeah.

So, um so going back to like the Mozy Park uh project, how long did that go for? And that was like your first piece. 12 months. Oh, was that big that long?

Uh yeah, proper one. Like it was all like a rip off the back of the house, full house, reno, pool, everything. And then um well really I think majority of the work got done in 9 months but then co came in between and we still managed to knock it over in 12 months. So how many so how many employees did you have then?

Uh just me so did it all managing with contractors. That's right. Y in many ways is easy easier easier. Yeah.

So I reckon from so you would have been like 2019 20 21 then yeah 21. Yeah I reckon that's right. Yeah. Okay.

So you would have kicked that off 2020 21. So you've been going three four years then. So three years. um your relationship with your contractors would have shifted between starting and getting to that point and working out the good ones.

Yeah, you go through a few but the reality is like um like we don't change unless we have to and most of the time people are expect like accept accepting of like a a chat about rates and all that sort of thing and we pay pretty well. I think we've had our bricky for five years concret for eight years. How'd you go with the whole CO thing when the demand of resourc normal trials and tribulations but to be fair as soon as CO happened I actually turned off all my marketing and didn't sell anything basically got on the phone to chat to everybody about what's coming up and make sure I could still get it done and all the guys really good like same same old rule of 10% cause you 90% of your problems but um yeah 90% of the guys fantastic yeah nice and what was your biggest roadblock I couldn't even you know obviously nice area probably older a house, huge rena, your first major job, longest job by the sounds of it. And because it would have set you up for the next rolling momentum, right?

Yeah. Like um to be fair, that one didn't have heaps of roadblocks. The clients were really reasonable like um just managing clients and their expectations on a bigger one. Oh, maybe trying to do a few things cheaper like um like so some paint jobs and stuff like that, which we we spoke about with the clients.

I said, "Look, if we get the cheaper one, it's probably not going to be the same quality as if you obviously spend double." But um like just with old houses, finding where you can save a few dollars for clients and when you can when you have to just spend the money on the existing homes like old Mosy Park house, right? You probably probably should have just bit the bullet and chosen the most more expensive price. But um we got there in the end. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Which they were full quit on it. Like we that was an additional variation.

So I'm like look, we can get it done for this. It's probably just going to be they'll drive you mad. They're going to be messier. It won't be as good of a quality job.

or we can pick this quote which is going to be significant better but it's double the price which we prefer and that understanding the entire time but now we just don't do that. We pick the price that we think it requires and then otherwise do it. Yeah. Yeah.

Cuz cuz like after the fact and like it's good that you got a good relationship. They're good people. Yeah. And you know that can come to the level of work you're you're doing as well in your in your market.

But it's like it can bite you in the ass later. Yeah. And like it like it could have like to be like um super clear, the paint job end up really good, but it just it just took a took a lot more hassling people to get back and get get those edges sharp and things like that, but if you didn't have a client that you can work with or have a relationship, you just can't do that. It can be bigger hurdles then it so you're doing 9 months to 12 months um going into co through that time obviously you guys getting momentum you would have picked up some other work, right?

Yeah. So like a lot of we literally shut our books for 12 months. As soon as they released those grants, I stopped all my marketing and did like and basically we touched on this. Yeah.

Just because um over stim like um I see how it all happened, but um over stimulating anything's a bad idea. So like it's taken on more when there's more work and not it really it really hit everyone. Hey, and everyone thought it was great. Put money in the market.

Like how many people went broke a couple of years later, they get letter of intents. They got all these deposits. I spoke with this with with Adrian and it's like how do how do you build 10 a year, let's just say, and then all of a sudden you got 30 or 40 and you're going to take them on like do 15% more work. So you can you can count you can actually yeah 100% work a bit harder push it but you're not going to triple or quadruple just because you got deposits in a letter.

So that's what we sort of aim since we started. We tried to get like 15 to 30% growth each year and we're sort of at that sweet spot now where yeah got the right amount of staff and stuff like that but like we've recently had someone leave like our main supervisor and that leaves a little bit of a spanner in the works but I just take over that hat for a few months until everything's back on track. It just makes me a little busier for a few months as you're aware. So when when did you So you shut the books.

So what what would they be in 21 was it? Yeah I think so. Yeah for about 12 months you know let it let it ride. So probably that long maybe like 6 to 9 months I didn't entertain selling anything at all.

I just made sure what we had on site we could get finished to a good standing along ticking along and like we um we coped a bit of a loss there as well for it for 12 months but that just is what it is. Yeah that's right. I'd prefer to do that than go bankrupt. So it was a sacrifice then probably to get you back in the right position later.

100%. Yeah. Not many done that. No.

No. Yeah. And they're probably not around. No.

Yeah. Was lucky we just didn't didn't bite off more than we could chew at the time. Well, the the big the big thing is obviously there was two things. There was the uh the resources, the materials and all that kind of stuff, bricks, and then there's the labor.

Yeah, 100%. And like if everybody sold triple the amount of work, this and we have less people in the country, it's just not going to work. Supply chain can't keep up the start as well. 100%.

And then it and supply chain obviously involves not just the product, but the logistics. Yeah. You say that's actually what our biggest hurdle was. just like a couple of times after that in Mosby Park.

I called up some suppliers, my won't name names, and um actually organized the delivery 12 weeks out, said I was happy to pay for it. So, I think I was coming back from Monkey Me with my family and I had a call from the supplier saying, "Oh, look, we didn't actually um put that stock aside for you. All the stuff's not there." So, there's three months of chaos on another massive like second store extension just down the road from my house originally. And they probably resold it for more.

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I don't think there's no ill intention there, just not the right coordination.

Yep. Yeah. So, you can get away with stuff, right, until there's pressure, till there's no room to move big time. Like, everyone can kind of deal with errors daily, like whether it's transport, products, whatever.

But when you got when something like that happens in the world, and then everything's maxed and sweated. Can't do anything. You can't push anything around. You can't have the error and that because you can't you can't make up for it.

No. You know, you haven't got the backup or the support. And also the guys like especially with trades like um good ones are booked out. So back when we used to work with summer back in the day um we didn't actually um like take on any other work.

They just had us booked out for six months at a time. So like and once you lose your spot you've got to rejig that some 70% of the time you'll be able to work something out. But it's u yeah pandemonium in between. Yeah.

Yeah. Clients have moved out. You've told them to take 12 months and if it's going to take an extra six months then they're going to be shitty with you just and I get that as well. So what did you do in that circumstance?

So you what material was it? Uh just all the wall timbers roof framing all that like so you didn't have it aside. So what what happened there? Was it negotiate with a client push and try a mixture guys?

Like we got so we call on a few suppliers. That's why you have to have a few. We obviously have our favorite ones but you get it from somewhere else. Get get some of it from a certain area.

See if those BS can start their other job first which in sometimes they can and then they'll come back a month later. But yeah, that's just one of those suck and see moments and you just work around it. Yep. And at the time, like obviously now it's all right to look back and go, we made it happen.

Yeah. But like at the time when you care so much about quality, you care so much about relationships and keeping going who you got. Yeah. And then obviously the the quality and the time for your client and the house had just been all the back section just been ripped off.

So like it's like and then the next week there's meant to be trades on site to build all the frames and like frame it all in and then it was like a lenini like wet year. So, it's just rain. You know how it is. So, then then you got like and that that was a Renault as well.

Yep. No one. So, then you got a Renault then you're affecting where someone lives and it goes like I'm I'm sure it would have gone a bit longer, wouldn't it? Yeah, there are.

Yeah, 100%. So like even in like it was probably at the other side 12 months into co where they sort of getting out like most of the time we got our clients into the house within 12 months but there's still some external works and that to be done which takes six months but by the time you got 8 to 10 jobs on you're spending yeah what 120 bucks a month on site toilets you're even losing six to eight grand just on site toilets which is interesting to put in perspective the thing people don't even look at. Yeah 100%. So like if you're on site for six months, 125 I think a month by the time it gets clean out and higher and you do that on 10 jobs like Yeah.

6 to 8 grand. Far out. So then what you got like 70 80 grand a year just on 100% like Yeah. By the time you do y and that's don't even get a mention.

That's not even that's not even the major problem. That's what it is. Yeah. So they're all indirect and that's only the the one item.

Yep. So yeah, the impact and then that was actually probably the best way to explain it to everybody when they're asking me. I'm like, "Look, we probably lost eight grand on side toilets in um six months." And they're like, "Holy shit." Pun intended. Yep.

Holy Yeah. Wow. Okay. So, so when did it start to clear up for you?

Like, and then what happened next? To be honest, I think it's just now it's just all the extra dramas of um like obviously this the latest market is still like full. Like um even on the other day I was my old boy was just watering a slab for me just make sure it doesn't crack. Y and he um he he was leaving there at I think4 to 6 and the rock concerter was just showing up to start cutting all the lines and that.

He was on site that morning at 5:30. I went and seen him I think we left there at4 to 8 from cutting up the rest of the things like just everyone's busy. Everyone Yeah. under the pump big time.

What what's materials shortage and all that like now or supply? Uh that's actually not too bad. So like got a few like a few supplies. Everybody's changing their systems at the moment it seems.

So they're taking a little bit longer to get out. But um most of the time we we traditionally leave quite a bit of time to call something up like 3 weeks. Um if you give them a week or two's notice, that's typically plenty at the moment even for like a big big timber order for like um Yeah. half million dollar house.

Yeah. Yeah. So So from say 22 23 how's your business changed since then? I know I talked to you the other week and you had a few ideas.

you probably go a bit harder but then you also I think it was designer architectural was shifting around for you the structure. Yeah. So we've got like a full-time designer on now fulltime scheduleuler full-time estimator supervisor actually did just leave so we place that in a few months but I've just got his job job under wraps at the moment and um he's um he's just gone on to some other job things that he always wanted to do I think start his own building company. So, so two two things I want to chat to you about actually and I spoke to a couple other builders about this is one is like how you going to go about getting the supervisor like he's just been poached from you.

Yeah. Good money difficultly do your own thing. Yeah. How do you go about that?

Like you know when you're a fussy guy like you attention to detail. How you going to go about find him? Then the vetting then when you do get him how much time do you spend with him? Yeah.

So like I think with the supervisor that I did have like I spent 12 months before I even in the range like um probably a similar thing I suppose it just takes time like I don't want to rush in anything too much because at the moment like I'm busy but I can I'm more than capable of like managing those jobs. So I'd prefer to take the time I haven't even put an ad out and I think that was four four weeks ago. Yeah. Just I just want to make sure everything's under wraps on site and then I'll worry about that later.

Yeah. Cool. Cool. We um what do we speak the other actually there's two more things.

So, one one thing we we did touch on is the whole remote team thing. Tell us a bit about like, you know, having someone um remote virtual assistant. Yeah, I do have I do have one one estimator in the Philippines. Everyone else is local just cuz like they actually do a brilliant job.

They do it exactly how I want it. I get them to do it the really long way that loads up into my software. So, every time instead of me spending a week on the quote myself, they they'll do most of the grunt work on it and then I'll review every item and just make sure I go through it like that. It's quite good.

So that that's awesome. So like we talked about it a bit because I've got like 10 or 11 in the Philippines as broker assistants and that's without the the digital side. And what I learned and and I built the tech to support them is it's all it's all communication and workflow like and and the process because maybe the initiative and problem solving is probably not there as much like we don't realize and I've had a lot of people go it doesn't work and I'm like usually we're the problem right you've got to spend the time with them and get the process and the steps and the direction right. I think there's also a few sort of ones that are hard to So like I did try it for a few months with a designer and just because of all the rules doesn't work.

So like that's why we have someone in house now and I've also got a couple um contractors we heavily rely on like they pretty much work full-time for us anyway. I think I think what you said before though and this is what I learned like get them to do the bulk the 80% and then it's like with with the brokers here right it's like they go in and do 70 80% of the work the repetitive the you know load up all the common stuff that you know is like low risk low error% and then you know we go in as the advisory or the builder or the you know the designer here locally and go in and finish it off and I think if you if you understand that piece and don't expect them to do the whole lot or know everything. I think I think you can get the efficiency out of it big time. There's also like a language breakdown as well like if so the estimator is probably the only one I'll use purely because they don't really have to speak to anybody but me like so or like and the quotes that I need followed up then most of the time it's an email out and I'll call or something anyway and then somebody else double checks that so my scheduleuler will do all of that work from Perth.

So just a bit easier like that. Yeah, cuz like if that like obviously with with a bit of a language barrier, it is a bit hard to be on the phone and that suppliers over here. So it didn't I didn't find it worked with the scheduleuler, but it does work with the estimator really well. Yeah.

Nice. It's good to hear that because you and you got a trial and error, but I think the I think the say like the savings of the hourly rates and all that kind of stuff, right? And like I was only having a chat yesterday morning on the way to a meeting and it's like the the wages are going up a bit as well now, right? But there's also the the workers are getting better as well.

Like we just we just hired one now and their English is unbelievable. Yeah, for sure. Their knowledge is unreal and they've actually come from an insurance industry in Australia. Yeah.

Which seven years. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like more experienced than us.

Yeah. Honestly, like they get on and like and then I've got and I the majority and no no judgment or um offense is they don't really think outside the box. It's all about the repetitive and and that's great cuz that's why they're strong at what they do 100%. But I got I got this one this week uh this young guy and he's really good and he um he's like I want to get my tier one and I wanted like which is a qualification right the start of it and like I haven't had many jump out and go I want that and he's like whatever I can learn like I want to be a broker just like everyone else and there's a struggle there's communic there's communication there's the like the license the local regulation the you know you got to learn the Australian way like of insurance right yeah and it's a big difference like always huge you know we got yeah we got Um I I just think but that that and I was talking to Jackson my business partner on the east coast and I said whether he can hit that bit or not that that now and initiative to think like that and give it a crack and give it a crack.

Yeah. And we'll support him. Like I love it when that happens cuz sometimes it's hard to find that here. Yeah.

People get entitled complacent and they come out of Mac and they want 80 grand. 100%. Especially when like there's just like work is nothing against McDonald's by the I think it's a great start, but like coming out of there and then jumping into an admin or jumping into something and and I think everyone says that analogy. Chicken bunnies.

I loved it. Yeah. So, what was that? I used to be a checkout chicken bunnies.

Okay, now we're going back. This is good. So, is that what gave you the um like the building side like? Oh, no.

Dad was a builder as well. So, he So, that's why you went to Bunnings. Yes. Oh, he also ran like a um company called Abbott Supply and Bendigo like with a couple other partners.

Yeah. So he was at like big construction company. It's like were you like 14 n months like when you hit a job? Literally.

Yeah. But now Bunnings came into school and interviewed like all everybody and I think me and one other chick were the only ones that sort of got offered a placement which was good but I think 14 to nine months. I was in there at 14 nine months in one day. So like as soon as we were legally allowed to.

I was the same actually but it was to a butcher. Oh it's brilliant. Like unreal. Get in work hard 100%.

I used to have to ride at night and 5ks to go there but I I you look back on it now I had a ball. Yeah, I I thoroughly enjoyed it. I was always racing everybody next to me just like competitive. I guess you're so trying to get more man.

You're very similar. Um and I actually have it's really cool because they're mad. Butchers are mad as cut snakes. I reckon they're uh it's a different industry and I never stayed at the end.

He's mad. They'll tap back then like out the back. Yeah. And uh it was a big place.

And I actually still talk to the owner now once a year, once a couple times a year. Jeff is absolute legend. Taught me a lot. And I used to teach him computers when I was there after hours.

And then um but a couple of the workers now uh reach out. They were always a bit older than me. I was a young guy and a bit of a smartass and cocky but worked hard so I backed it up. Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. And um I always push the buttons with them as end up getting either wet down or in a headlock or something. But but now they message and they got a lot of respect and same I go you remember when you taught me that it'd be like racing wash and start you know all that being a young guy.

But I think going back them days teach you a lot or set you up for the basis of where we are today. The 1% big time. Even like how people don't want to work public holidays or something like that. I just saw that as a win.

I was like beautiful double time. I'd leave at 3:00 in the morning at Christmas cuz we'll see food as well and you know butchers and seafood at Christmas like anywhere 100%. I'd leave at 2 3 in the morning and I'll be back there by 600 7. I might have left at 2:00 but it was all like midnight bit after.

Yeah. And then I wouldn't ride at that hour and then um I'd be back early in the morning 5 6 whatever it is. But I'd get off on it. I'd love it.

Like prove yourself, you know, and I think that's just a work ethic from probably family growing up and paying for my own stuff and like you know Yeah. We we were exactly the same. Like my folks always instilled those good old country values. They're just very good people and always like um led by example as well.

Mom's tough as nails. Dad worked. Dad worked a shitload and it was just Yeah, it was good. Yep.

So I yeah it's funny and I haven't really touched on this at all or thought about for a long time but so I started when I was 14 months probably one day like like you did as well and then went really hard because I was at school and then I left school year I'd done year 11 but I never passed it because I didn't do the homework. I always done a ride at schools. I was like a BC student probably dees if I don't do me homework and I actually like that. I like I liked being that because I think you got street smart plus you're smart enough academically.

Yeah, I I that's the way I see it. No judgment by anyone else. This whole A+ and whatnot. I think street smarts, people, skills, all that really give me a And I was they called me the B+ man cuz teachers wouldn't give me A's cuz I didn't try.

So they just to prove a point. So I just thought literally my whole report cards were all like lit were just B+es except for woodworking and sport trades. Yeah. I was at I was a tech.

I was at a technical school. Yeah. So mechanics, woodwork, all that. But going back to the butcher piece, um I think when I left school, Jeff, the owner or the GM, uh Ray, he goes, "Um, do you want to come on board?" So I went on board.

I went there, I'm going to guess 12 months or whatever. And then I wanted to do a unicourse on race cars and engineering because I was always into bikes and cars since I was four years old. And then he was going to pay for it. Jeff was going to pay for it.

And because he goes, "You've worked hard, you know, 16, 14, months, all the Christmases and all the holidays." And uh in the end he goes, "Do you want to do apprenticeship here at the butcher um and get a trade?" In the end, I went down that path, but I end up having lower back issues a bit later. Plus, when I was 17, 18, I I end up get a little bit of trouble. It's why I left and went to Tazzy when I was 18. But I look back at that now and it was like going back to the whole work hard effort, which is hard to find.

And I think it's probably always been the case. Like Jeff's like, "Stay on board." Like, you know what I mean? Like I got that opportunity. He was either going to pay.

He goes, "Your choice. I'll pay for your uni course because you're unreal and I'll help you grow. And I think that's why I do that a lot now. Well, he doesn't need to.

So, like that's No, he doesn't need to. Had nothing to do with generous. Yeah. But I used to stay back, teach them computers.

I've always been really savvy with computers and I used to stay back and do whatever internet and whatever it was. They're a butcher. Like nothing to do with butchering. Yeah.

100%. And um and then he used to drop me home or the GM did or one of them and then offered me to stay and I never stayed in the end. But um he was a successful businessman. Sold it.

I learned a lot off him as We talked over the years here and there and um but it just goes back to that effort when you're young and the work ethic and it gets res um recognized and I do that now and it's probably why like why I help the younger person. Oh for sure that's what I just remember like when we're kids anytime we complain about being bored there's fences to paint or fix like 100%. Yeah. So we didn't complain much.

So the the other piece I always talk about like if I can in like with a business owner on that is accountability. Accountability or vulnerability. Now, me and you caught up uh a few months ago, whatever, in your office, and um it really stuck with me this chat and this is I I love this chat and it gives um I really respect it and I think we're talking about maybe the way we respond sometimes under pressure to an employee or a supervisor or a manager or they make a mistake and I think you you spoke about it and then you had to like go put your toe between your legs the next day or a couple days apologizing like don't get me wrong, I don't crack it too often these days. That's right.

You know, it could be that day, that time, and like we've we've all done it. But I love talking about that cuz it it's important because people don't realize pressure under or you know, with some when you're the 1%, your attention to detail is really good. And it's just really it comes down to care for the client a lot of the time, right? Yeah.

100%. It's all it's all like no matter what it is, it's not just the job, it's your name and your reputation as well. Like and it's just if I tell you I'm going to do a better than better job than anybody else, we have to do that. So like it just um if you if something is lacking like it just it just it it hurts you on the inside.

It does. You know when when you go back and you go like me and Mitch done it. It's like Mitch we didn't probably need to butt heads like that or what not. Apologize.

You know got I one of my one of the fellas that did something wrong the other week I thought and it turns out he's right. I called him the next day and I'm like hey mate just wanted to say I was wrong. Um didn't shouldn't have given you. What that do for your relationship there?

And how important is that for the culture in the business? Very important, but you still got to try not to do it. Yeah. Yeah.

Of course. Of course. It's not a It's not go do it to make it better. It's like, but we're human.

Oh, big time. Yeah. It doesn't happen a lot. It's just um but yeah, there's just there's always a better way to address it.

Do you know what I Yeah, there is. And um but that self-reflection and repair, I reckon is like so whether it's a personal relationship or or a business one, it's probably what I've got a lot better at over the eight years, I'd say. like as running a company like everybody we need everyone and everyone is a team so like I'm always sprouting off teamwork is the dream work like I'm just I'm always taking the piss but I'm also serious like it's just nice perfect example this morning concrete pump driver he doesn't have to be screeding concrete my concerter is probably a little understaffed at the moment I just had someone leave a couple months ago been with him for five years um so he's getting the job done for us which is great he's there 5:30 in the morning and the pump driver gets out and he notices everyone's a little bit under staff so He gets the rake and he starts screening it all for good. Just Yeah, that's work ethic and that's that's getting it done.

There's two there's two bits to this, right? Like him supporting and helping you, but you do you do you know the concrete pump from? No, don't know him. But I already said it to a couple of the guys.

I'm like then that's what that's what it's all about. I was going to say because the other piece is either the company or him or it could be just a one-off but they got the respect for you and it just shows how much of a good like leader or builder you are when when that happens right. I don't reckon they do that for anyone. It's how you treat them in the morning.

It's how you rock up. You being there early. So like I seen him driving like dad told me he's driving past and I went out. I'm like like he's doing it by himself.

So I went to help him cut the lines. Yeah. But it I don't do that for everybody though to be very clear. That's because he's a hard worker, man.

He's probably doing 80 hours a week at the moment trying to keep up. And he's getting there. And clients chilled me out about not getting some um some slabs down to like guys. I can't can't give this guy grief.

He's working harder than all of us. He'll get there. So, you're supporting him. Backed him up.

Oh, big time. Yeah, big time. He's nice fell. Does very well.

Yeah. That's unreal. Um and and that that is what I think the difference can be between, you know, another company in a similar industry and yourself. Like it doesn't matter what industry.

Like that's why I like being this side, too. So, I actually hadn't really spoken to many of the trades whilst my supervisor was on. I'm not going to lie, I don't like being in the office as much as I like being on site. It's just uh I like to be moving and um just sorting out problems and in the office like it's good.

It's like got its pros, but I must admit I like a like a lot more hands-on approach. Yep. Yeah. Like to get get done.

Yeah. Yeah. Big time. So, since I spoke to you last when I was when I was with you last, I told you how much of a I was in the ice bath.

Yeah. Yeah. So I said I haven't done it for a couple of years cuz my ankle's cracked. Right.

So I went uh week ago or a week and a half ago. Was it Mitch? Do you remember? Something like I went in.

Right. So mate just opened up mate open a gym. He's going to come on here ray at less I think it is. And um he's got a wicked recovery area.

The whole bit infrared sa uh infrared bed the sauna and then the ice bath. I'm like I'm going to give it a go. What you What were you at? So, I got in uh 6.7 degrees.

So, not too not too down. Y I got in and got back out me ankles, right? No, no, no, hang on. Me ankles and I'm like, I'm not letting this beat me, right?

So, then I got in again, ankles again, went. So, I got out. I'm like I was like I stew I was stewing on this, right? Put them out of lay down.

Put it out. I did. I walked around the other end legs up like this and I was in for like three minutes and then I got out. I went in back into the sauna and then um and I'm like I'm going again because what the rest of it I was fine.

It was just me ankles. What was wrong on the ankles, mate? They just go they've done it for like a couple of years. They just go cold in mega pain.

Mega like and I I reckon I am pretty resilient and I was starting to think I'm never going to be able to do this. Anyway, I got back in. I done four minutes like with me ankles out again. I only do the three minutes.

Like I do three minutes three times a week. So only because of like um Hman's podcast. So it's 40 minutes of solder and 9 minutes of um ice bath at like a reasonably cold temperature and I think you get all the benefits from that. So I do Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

So you mean four would you say 40 minutes all up for the week? Uh yes. So I think it's 36 9 minutes is ice bath for the week and for and um 60 minutes of sauna for the week. So after I might get this off you after I'll send it to you.

That's that's where I was going with this anyway. Um we obviously chatted about it because you got it out the back where you are. Yeah, I love it. Which is awesome.

And um I wouldn't be able to get there all the time. I just um Yeah. couple of young kids and that's why I have the work work like that. Have all my work out here gear at the office like Yeah.

How good. And you said your brother uses it all. He does. Yeah.

Three days a week. He's more consistent than me though. He's a better human. Yeah.

So that's usually my struggle as well. But it was really good going to check out Tim's place, walk out the bat, the gym, and the main actually the main focus was the whole looking after yourself piece. And we started chatting about that which was good. And um talk to me a little bit about that and how much it helps in business, especially when you're under pressure or you're busy.

Oh, big time. Routine is everything. Like that's why like I struggle a little bit now while I'm doing a bit of the supervising as well. So like I I I get up at yeah 4:30 like on Monday, Wednesday, Fridays and I'm in the gym by 5:00 a.m.

And uh it's it's a it's a struggle at the moment whilst I'm supervising and office because you do sales at the end of the day and you do you do supervising predominantly early in the morning. So um the staff been really good. I've been working out in the middle of the day a lot lately, which I actually don't like. I feel lazy no matter what happens.

Like even if you're doing it during the day. Yeah. It just doesn't sit with my psyche at all. But um super important to get there, still work out, do all that sort of stuff, and keep as much routine as you can.

Yep. So I I find it it's huge if I can get it done in the morning, go to the gym in the morning, and um I didn't go this morning. Actually, I don't normally go Wednesdays, Thursday, Friday. Um just the clarity for the day.

Oh, 10 times like like Yeah. Just like I'm on. Yeah. Like and actually I was pretty good this morning, but like when you go to the gym, go home, eat, like and then you just set up and you're already ahead for the day.

Like if you're up before anyone's calling, so like even the other day like um I got in there half hour later in the morning and I wasn't done by 6:30. Already had seven calls and five messages. Do you know what I mean? And that's you're not walking in prepared for that.

And then you feel And then you feel a little form of anxiety like it's just It just feels like I'm not ahead of everybody else. So, like it's just better to be up and at it before. Oh, I know that feeling. The other one is the ice bath.

And this is why I'm so glad that I could get in it again. Right. Yeah. It's good for you.

And um I might even go tonight actually. Um what I found Oh, they jumping in the ocean early or doing an ice b ice bath. It resets from the day yesterday. It just it just clears your It's like just clears your whole body.

If I have if I have a particularly rough day, every now and then I'll just go have an ice bath in the middle of the day. that sort of shocks you into just being yourself again. So you don't crazy, isn't it? Like there's all these other benefits, but that bit there for the mindset and like kick off is I mean I used to actually have it like it wasn't as plush of a setup and I'd just have a big deep freeze like my back under the tree and it's like piss and rain.

I'd stand in dog then go you get in and Yeah. Yeah. That's resilient. I didn't miss any for like 150 days like nah.

This is before kids though like now like even now I'm bit husky because I've got just got a cold daycare baby that's about the if I was talking about roadblocks everybody if I was saying to anything to anybody is daycare is diabolical just forget oh big time for getting your crook yeah cuz kids no matter what like kids are fine how old are your two again mate uh two and four two and four yeah so they're young I just started at school and like just yeah just the the bugs they bring home from school and daycare I've never seen anything like it and and Once your health gets even if it's just a cold or something simple it once you get affected throws the gym out all the all the stuff we just talked about the cycle and keeping in mindset and work and then you know supervisor leaving and loaded like go and get sick. Oh it's even that's what like totally fine. I think I'd had two beers in six weeks and then on the long weekend I ended up having like four beers and three wines one night. Bang next day got a cold.

I'm like you son of a You insist him down. Yeah 100%. I'm like come on man. Yeah.

How many days do they go every day or? No, just a couple. So, um, one the the four-year-old, he's at like that five day Fortnite thing now with school, which that's one of those other things that, um, I've just changed my mindset around that now. So, I get the luxury of picking them up on a Tuesday and Thursday cuz I like to and um I was little bit like frustrated by the hours of it, but I've sort of changed the perspective on it.

And now we go we go get KFC on those nights. I get them a go bucket and we um I hang out with them for a while. They'll remember that stuff. They love it.

Not memories, too. And it's the simple things going in the KFC, going, you know, like just picking them up, you know, the memories. Oh, the stories they tell you. It's hilarious.

Like, what's the latest? Oh, like even yesterday, my oldest was telling me about how it's like he'd just been in a fight with another kid. And I'm like I'm like, well, what's the full story to this? He goes, well, I walked up and asked him if he could if he wanted to wrestle and then he said, yeah, I'll take you easy and then scrap it.

No ego there. And oh god, he's going to be like me. So, um, when's the plans for the next two? Oh, Mrs.

Hassling me right now, but not until we get this, um, development approval and that under the way because it'll take a while to sort a house and practice, mate. Get the practice. Yeah. No.

Yeah, 100%. Not a bad problem in the Mes has to. So, always. So, uh, so four of them.

Hey. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I reckon three is chaos anyway.

And I like being from a big family, so that's Yeah. No, that's awesome. and and you know even that there like peeling the layers back I think you obviously love that the big family because you're so close to your own siblings and you know you love the busyiness but you love that I think my family are my best mates like that's what my wife has always when we started dating like 10 years ago she's always hassled me about not wanting to hang out with other people why would I want to like yeah I trust them more than anything well you know when I think when we were talking you know like before you you're like the big family you come from the big you're very close to your siblings and your parents very and um I think all that's like you know rubbed off paid off you know that's what's entrenched in you right that loyalty and that trust and that's your trust space and circle 100% that's why I like with growing the business and that we won't probably won't do that until we like sometimes you feel like you're slacking when the opportunity is there like your building boom and stuff like that but I just um I do like being around for the kids at that young age I think especially like zero to four they Um, they really need you around, I reckon. Yeah.

Yeah. Because they run their mum ragged. I I think I'm a good dad, but I I think there was there's moments I reflect on time like that. I think that's really important.

That zero to four or even the four to eight like that 0 to 7, eight, I think um is really important. And I think your kids don't know how lucky they are to have you and and and your wife and your family around you as role models and that you really thrive to have that big family. Everybody absolutely amazing. Yeah, we're very lucky because I think you know they they'll build their trust circles with their siblings, with their cousins, with you know all that kind of stuff and and what's a build memories, right?

100%. Now I go back to the conversation I have a lot is like 95% of your brain subconscious 5% is conscious but subconscious is all built on and it and it could be trauma or it can be the great memories and the great things you done and the learnings and the role models and the you know all that stuff. So when someone like yourself's like, I'm going to build a big family like I come from and build them trust circles with siblings, cousins, and all that kind of stuff, that's amazing for your kids. Oh, big time.

Like even my that's why when we move out of M and dads with like my other sisters on the property, too. So, and like she's got three lovely kids as well and they just like um they're out there playing with my kids every night. It makes my life easier and they love it. Yeah.

And imagine the support when they're older they're going to have, right? And how close, you know? Yeah. They'll butt heads.

I'll punch on the door. That's where they learn, right? That's where they build their resilience. But um when the times really matter, when they're older, that'll be um Yeah, that'll be their solution and support.

100%. Which is really cool. Does your Does your wife, if you don't mind me asking, come from a bigger family, a small family? No, she's small family.

So like um she's I think that's what part of the attraction at the start for her was I think she likes the idea of a really big family. Well, she definitely does cuz she hounded me about having more kids. So yeah. So where where about she from?

Uh, she's up in East. Yeah. North Perth. Oh, yeah.

So, over over this way. That's right. Yeah. So, you met her over here?

Yeah, that's right. On Tinder, mate. Swipe right back in the back. Yeah.

So, it's good. Is just working out what that is after 16 years of being in a relationship. Oh, it's funny. You're not you're not you're not ready for it until you are like obviously like you have your fun and that sort of thing, but then um like when you when you meet I knew I was going to marry my wife on our first date.

She's Yeah. Yeah. Big time. Yep.

How good. Yeah. 100%. Yeah.

I love her very much. What was the uh what was it? Was it just a connection? Just jelled, mate.

She's still she's still even she she'll be listening to this, she's still the most difficult woman I ever dated. But um but she's and I don't reckon you're probably the easiest. Not a chance. Yeah.

Yeah. 100%. If we are a little bit alike, I reckon you're hard work. 100%.

But it's rewarding, eh? Yeah. No, big time. No, she's just really good.

She's the y of my yang, I suppose. Like very diligent. She's a dentist as well. So like this is what I like about another thing I do really like.

Um I'm a school dropout. She's gone the other way and she's a like technically a doctor dentist. So, like kids can do both. Do you know what I mean?

Yep. And she loves reading. I always struggled. I read a bit now, but um yeah, never like to sit down too long.

And she's the complete opposite. She likes to have a little bit of relax and read 15 books. Yeah, definitely definitely opposite there. What um and and with your two kids, are they both like her at the moment or they split or are they Well, the youngest hasn't left her side until literally like two weeks ago, but that's another really good thing about her.

The oldest is definitely like a daddy's boy, but the second one, the youngest, um, Alexander, he um, he's definitely a mommy's boy and but he's just started coming over to want me to do everything now. Age change. Yeah, big time. What's going with daddy?

But um, yeah, she's just brilliant cuz she like doesn't get jealous of the fact that I want to spend time with daddy. She's just wants to push it along. Now she asks me about the third. She goes, "These two are yours now." So now I need another one.

How good. That's awesome. She's good. I I really uh Yeah, I envy and appreciate your your relationship and the whole family thing.

It's fantastic. Oh, yeah. We like we all have our issues and that sort of thing, but we get along very very well. Yeah.

One thing one thing I learned I think a big part of it is that whole yin and yang connecting the repair, right? Communication guaranteed which you know is is nothing um surprisingly but whether it's business personal most of it comes back to the communication and understanding% everyone's different. So go back to business from 23 say to now. So what what's what looks different like besides you know the bit of structure change supervisor gone as of like recent what about the work and the clients like oh just a bit bigger and a bit more luxurious you know what I mean like it's just doing a like quite a few proper luxury builds now doing a few child carees that sort of thing.

So we do like as you know from insurance we we do 50/50 split so we do half commercial half residential. Um just sort of worked out that way. The jobs are just getting bigger and more complicated and more expensive. Yeah.

What? So, what kind of commercial? What kind of commercial you doing or what's what's the most exciting kind of is it just tiltups or uh No, so not that sort of commercial. We like convert residential dwellings into like child carees and stuff like that.

So, like helping get a new title and things like that. We're doing one in South P at the moment that actually just took a little bit of a like a was paused for a bit whilst we just sorted a few dramas on site, but that's getting going again now. He's a return client child care like um and it's actually a heritage church that's been converted into a childare. So they're all interesting jobs.

So what kind of roadblocks you hit there like to stall it? Oh just like um al or like uh the heritage piece or uh yeah not even so basically like um finances and that have all gone up recently. So like while we wait for a few of those things to tick over um trades like before Christmas we didn't want to rip out all the front yard and leave it all exposed. So just like there's a month of delay timing challenge 100%.

Yeah. And we're starting to l back on top of that one now. So we're all starting to move that along which is good. Yep.

Yep. Yep. Have you got fortunately the client's a really nice fell as well. So most of like I said we get along pretty much.

And being a return client like even if like there's always issues in this stuff like building is pretty complicated, right? Be honest. How many bill of materials or items is there to go build a house, right? Like it's not easy.

No. And and look how much whether it's house or commercial like look how much it's evolved over the years. Now go and look at a normal design house now. It's not just not freaking water.

No. Like like in all the claddings and stuff like the more basically the more expensive it is, the harder it is to keep clean and look after. And just even like looking at uh Adrian's and a few others like just the standard now in the leverage and the levers and the like the cladding and like the style and the shape. Pinterest Pinterest ruined our lives.

Yeah. Just Yeah. Too transparent. Oh yeah.

Not even just there's so much of it now. So like there's there's brushed nickel, there's stainless steel, there's chrome, there's black, there's like there's just everything is different. So now surfaces and I'm not sure if you've read like um to like they did this um research on people buying jams, right? They gave them seven choices jam or 40 choices of jam.

And when like the people were like shown the seven choices, it was like 60% of people say bought bought a jam. When there were 70 choices of jam, only 10% did because there's not there's too much choice. And it just weirds everybody out. So have you watched and resonates with me.

I was on the plane once probably six going to say six, seven, six, seven years ago and um I watched the Costco doco. Yep. Have you watched that? No, not at all.

Good. Same same. Well, think about Costco, right? One or two choices larger.

Yeah. Is a that's what it was built on. Exactly what you just what you just said. And you still leave with like Bunnings.

You still leave $400 $500 in a shocker at Bunnings still. But it but it was the whole choice piece and then obviously the layout you know you walk past a holiday area or jewelry you know cuz Costco do everything especially overseas before I come to Australia. Yeah. And I think I watched it before I come to Australia, Costco.

But it comes back to that whole mental psychology of thinking um less choice you'll buy more than having like going to a supermarket. I I'm the same. I'm patient. You got seven choices there.

I'm like, I'll keep I'll come back. I own mine now. Just go straight to what I want. Repeat.

Yeah. Yeah. So I don't have to make a choice. That's what like I I'm very much like that as well.

So I just like I find something I like and I stick with it. I was even down the local like G fun in Okconor. It's just like chicken and rice place and joint. It's lovely.

And um I rocked in on the weekend again and the bloke goes mate I see you more than my wife. Like so I'm at the back of the line. They'll be like same. I'm like same.

Like every day I don't change it. Yeah. You know there's a bit of method in that right even like you know you look at you know leaders in the world or successful people or whatever and they start wearing plain stuff and and I'm like it's it's like having a work polo and that I end up wearing that. I like it.

It's just easier. No choice. Yeah. You know, same same outfit.

You know, I've only been a bit casual whacking this bloody journey shirt on, but we still can't still haven't got any made. I might do what you said and go get the iron on for now. Oh, yeah. They print them out like they um prints them out like down on South Street.

It's good. Yeah. Nice. Quite easy.

So, it's funny how we thought on that. It's the way people think. What how does that reflect when you're building? What do you mean?

And people are picking like say you're doing a rena or whatever and like do I don't have as much to do with that anymore. So like no interior designers. Yeah. Cuz I like I um like even my wife would be designing our house and I I haven't even looked at it.

So like she's she's a fidious sort of very diligent person and I trust that I'll look at it when we go to build it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. What's next? What's the next two, three, four years look like for you? I think pretty similar.

Find a new supervisor that's like up to the task. Obviously, that won't be a short. That'll be a hard That'll be a hard slog to find that as well because everybody they're pretty hard to find at the moment. But, um probably similar size like I think um we got the scheduleuler and the and the drafty in the office.

They're doing great. My other draft is doing great. The folks on site got Oh yeah, I've got a couple of carpenters as well which I forgot to mention. It's similar size 8 to 12 jobs a year and then sort of filter through for a few years until the kids are in school just so I can be around.

The work the doing the work doesn't bother me. It's just um once I start something I struggle to not follow it through. So I try to rain it in a little bit because then it's very easy to not be present because you're wrapped up in or client or 100%. Yeah.

That used to be my problem as well. And and it's only us that can actually rain that in. Yeah. Big time.

You can get told by the wife, you can get told by other people, but it's like And once you're in it, you're in it. So once you've sold that too late like you've already sold it, now you've got to do what you said you were going to do. So like in the end I think it is a personal drive thing and and a sticking to do what you say you're going to do. Yeah.

But um you know it also puts food on the table also keeps the business going. It also keeps the retention you know all that stuff as well relationship which you know by the sounds of it you got fantastic relationships. Yeah. I'm really lucky.

Yeah. Yep. Yep. Biggest challenge lately besides your supervisor.

Yeah. No that one's causing me one's causing me some struggles at the moment. Um, biggest one you've had in the overcome? I couldn't tell.

Problem? Maybe that truck burning down. So, yeah. So, like two days before it was meant to be on a barge to roto.

So, this this ring has been me on I think a Was it a Friday? I think it was. Yeah. So, like um I loaded up the truck and the trailer.

So, there's like 10 10 ton worth of gear on a truck. You're sending your photos through. Yeah. Yeah.

To go to um which Yeah. It looks deliberate cuz I have all the photos like everything there like cuz I sent it to relevant trades and um literally my sister was over from the Cayman Island. She called me and goes, "Hey, I'd just taken the truck to fuel up. Brought it back." My sister called me goes, "Hey, we're taking dad for lunch.

You got time?" Like, "Yeah, I've got two hours. I'll um I'll come and we'll go for lunch." I literally left, sat down to have lunch with my family and my wife calls and goes, "Your truck's on fire." And um a Milwaukee battery malfunctioned in the cab. There must have been something on the bag and it literally burnt the whole lot down 2 days before it goes to Roto. So, no, sorry, 4 days.

So, I think it was meant to leave on Tuesday. I had the guys reorder everything, restack up the thing, hire a truck, get everything there, and then basically still went on. That was that caused me a lot of setbacks cuz instead of being organized, that truck was a tip truck as well. So, I was planning on doing a load there every week and a load back every week.

I could only take a trailer. So, then essentially because of that, then I had to get skips. they ended up costing loads instead of being able to take the waste off site, but once again, you just lean in, stayed there for a few weeks, and got it done. Yeah, it's um and and you you don't like I have a lot of clients go, "Oh, but I've never had a claim." But when you do have that claim, like you don't realize how much it impacts you, like not just the vehicle, but it's the just the time associated with it.

So, like it was you you sorted that out really well for us, but like the truck wasn't the biggest problem. It's just the fact that all the stuff that was on the truck, materials, tools. Yeah. I had to stay on stay on Rottnest Island which isn't horrible make no mistake but I like having like staying around with the kids but um yeah I was just there a lot and then obviously in the office that doesn't get translated as well as it should because I'm not in the office all the time you just got to play catchup but I tell you I tell you what I love that you're fussy and you're like attention to detail because um and you said before like you already you know you got the photos and all that stuff but I tell you what it makes it so much easier to get it lodge get it in and the big difference it does and this is a bit of a insurance thing like probably a value thing.

If you go and put drips and drabs into I think I said this to you into the insurer, it's good to notify them. But then if we put half a form in, we send them one photo or then we send them a report then like every day there's a bit of info. It doesn't give them like all like all of us. It doesn't give them to grab hold of it, own it and then get it happening.

Yeah. Um and we done now you did mention that to me like I wish everyone did this. Yeah. Yeah.

That's right. because we can get the whole thing bit of a risk profile put our spiel on it get it in and then if there's the you know 5% missing or whatever we can fix it up 100% um and then still then and I don't think it was intent I don't think but uh they they just the valuation on it got to go back negotiate with the valuator make sure it's right but we got a good outcome in the end and um everything takes time sometimes I think the biggest thing I I remember from it though I think you bought it off your dad or something didn't that's probably the biggest kick in the ass like yeah he gives me a about it to day gave you a truck and you burnt it down. So like pretty much. And it was a good truck like Oh no.

Like had 100,000 KS on it. Nothing like and it was um like always been looked after. Ideal for what it was for. It was just fit for purpose.

Didn't need anything more. That is what it is. Yeah. It's like it's life in it.

And and you know what? No one was hurt. N which you know which that's even crazy lucky. So the fact that it like I reversed it too far always.

It's manual so I always leave it in gear. I didn't because I reversed a little bit too far but it's predominantly flat ground. I just put the handbrake on. Um the clutch that the handbrake got burnt out, but it was actually in between our winter wood pile and a big ghost gum tree.

So like it rolled forward into a clearing that had um that had been burnt out the week before for a bonfire. Just a series of like circumstances that like just incredible could have burnt the whole house down. And my wife was home too to call the not call the um ambulance. Yep.

What I call fire department. Fire department. Yeah. So it all align in favor.

Yeah. It's that good coming back around. Oh yeah. Like the stars align because I've burnt mom and dad's house down.

I never they never let me live it down. Yep. Mate, I think we'll wrap it up there. It was awesome.

Um it was great to learn a lot more about you and um obviously piece everything together. Two things. How'd you how'd you go today? What'd you get out of it?

Yeah, it's fine. Ah, it's good. Just the chat. Yeah.

And um who can I get on here? What are you looking for? You tell me someone because everyone always has someone coming to mind. Um, so I always try and get someone to think of someone shout it out that comes to mind for you, mate with a signwriting company.

He'd probably be interested, I think. Yeah, you're a good fellow. Does a good job. All right, cool.

I'll hit him up. Mitch, we'll have to hit him up after. No, it was great. It was really good, man.

I um I got a lot out of that. And um once again, like me and you spoke about just before we start, no matter what business we're in, I think all the fundamentals very similar. We all go through the same stuff, you know, from HR, hiring, firing to being accountable and vulnerable ourselves and the culture. Um, you know, um, and as a mate always said, I was with him on the weekend, he's like, don't the client, I think you got the same mentality, right?

When when it when it's um 50/50, take the beating essentially. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And move on.

And once again, it comes around the long run, right? 100%. So, yeah. No, thanks for coming on, mate.

Pleasure, mate. Thank you very much. Thanks. Thank you.