Meet Joel Pond
Founder of On Lock Apparel
Joel Pond is the founder of On Lock Apparel, a premium streetwear label he runs from a warehouse in Falcon, south of Mandurah. Born in Mareeba in Queensland, he moved to Western Australia before he started school and grew up skating around Falcon and Dawesville. He was arrested at 20 for selling drugs, was given a seven year sentence and was released after five, in September 2020. After finishing his boilermaker apprenticeship he worked 18 months FIFO as a boilermaker and rope access worker, saved his wages and put them into the brand. Twenty one months in, he has sold more than 12,000 tees, runs most of the business himself with the help of AI, and is 31.
Episode summary
In episode 27 of The JRNY podcast, Paul Cohalan sits down with Joel Pond, the founder of On Lock Apparel, who drove up from Mandurah for the recording. The two were connected by a mutual mate, Kane. Joel was born in Mareeba in Queensland, moved to Western Australia around pre primary and grew up in Falcon and Dawesville, south of Mandurah, skating most of his life. The brand's name comes from skating: when you have a trick on lock, you have practised it a hundred times and nailed it. It was the first name that came to him, and he did not think of any others. As a 17 year old first year apprentice boilermaker on $8.90 an hour, he started selling a bit of weed on the way home and worked out he made more on a scooter ride than in a day at work. He quit his apprenticeship, and the selling escalated. In 2015, at 20, he was caught with a kilo and given a seven year sentence. He served five.
Joel is clear that he is not encouraging anyone to go to jail. But he says he needed it, and that he cruised through it. He describes the routine in maximum at Hakea, where everyone starts, then medium security at Acacia, where he played tennis and built routines, and nine months at Wandoo, a prison for young men that he says had the best rehabilitation rate in the state before it was turned into a women's prison. He took up the gym and boxing inside, and five years with no phone and no technology meant learning to sit with himself, accept where he was and be patient. He got out on 30 September 2020, and what stayed with him was gratitude: a normal bed, driving a car. That fades within a week, he says, so the skill is catching yourself being ungrateful. He finished his apprenticeship, went FIFO as a boilermaker and rope access worker on a two weeks on, one week home roster, and lasted 18 months before deciding he was not doing it forever. He saved those wages and put them into a clothing brand.
The rest of the conversation is a practical lesson in how to start a clothing brand. It took Joel six months and two suppliers to make his first shirts. He did the measurements himself, and the fabric he finally chose nearly doubled his cost, so a brand he had planned at a cheaper price point became a premium one. Every tee is backed by a guarantee he took from Alex Hormozi's thinking on offers: if it is not the best tee in your wardrobe, you keep it for free. Six people have claimed it out of more than 12,000 tees sold. He drops new products every month, about 185 so far with around 90 sold out, and talks through minimum order quantities, cash flow tied up for months before stock arrives, the margins his coaching course pushed him on, and why paid Meta ads, not organic content, built the brand. In 21 months he has paid himself for only one week, and only because he needed it for a home loan. The business has no employees beyond a young packer, his partner edits videos and runs the brand's socials, and almost everything else, from customer service emails to running the ad account and building the website, he does with Claude Code, which he picked up about six months earlier. He demonstrates it live, asking his AI to update the homepage while Paul watches. Ahead of Black Friday he has placed his biggest order yet, and he admits he works more than 90 hours a week and sometimes burns out. His view is that the clothing brand is the vehicle, not the goal, and his advice to anyone who hates their job is to give it a punt: the worst case is going back to what you were doing.
Key takeaways
Back your product before you sell it. Joel spent six months and went through two suppliers before he had a shirt he was happy with, making the measurements himself. When the better fabric nearly doubled his cost, he took it anyway, because he wanted a product he could genuinely back in his ads rather than fake it. That is why he can offer his guarantee: if it is not the best tee in your wardrobe, you keep it for free. Out of more than 12,000 tees sold, six people have claimed it.
You do not know your best sellers until you sell. With a minimum order of about 100 pieces per item and a small budget, Joel had to guess his first range. He made matching sets of shirts, shorts and hats. The shirts sold quickly and the shorts did not, an instant lesson that not everyone wants a matching fit. Pieces he loves have sometimes been his slowest sellers, so he has learned to ask what the market says rather than what he or the people around him think. As the brand grows, larger orders bring the cost per piece down and give him room to take more risks.
Cash flow is the hard part. In the early days Joel paid a 30% deposit when he ordered, waited about a month for samples and another for production, then paid the other 70% before a long sea shipment. By the time stock arrived he had often already paid for the next three or four drops. With Claude's help he built a case for his supplier and negotiated, using an approach he learned from Alex Hormozi of opening with an unrealistic ask, and landed on 30% up front with the balance after delivery.
Acquire customers, then let the product bring them back. Joel is open that the brand is built on paid Meta ads rather than organic content. His approach is to work out how much he can spend to acquire a customer and break even, then rely on a good product to bring them back, with somewhere around 40 to 50% returning. One customer has placed 38 orders. He keeps sales to about twice a year so customers do not learn to wait for a discount, and he expects to see little money for years while profit goes back into stock and ads.
Treat AI like a new employee. Joel runs customer service, emails, the ad account and his custom website through Claude Code, with a memory of the business that every chat draws on and connections to his tools. His customer service agent checks emails every half hour and flags refunds to him. His advice is to train it the way you would train a person: set protocols, give it your knowledge, and check its work, because it makes mistakes. You would not hire a random 12 year old and expect them to know everything, he says.
Advice from people who have done it. Joel says the hardest advice to handle comes from good hearted people who love you and have never done what you are trying to do. People tell him to find balance, but he sees balance over 10 years, not a single day. He has spent somewhere between $60,000 and $70,000 on courses and coaching, and says most of it was not wasted, but most of it was also available on YouTube. The clothing brand is the vehicle, he says. He is passionate about the goal, and if the vehicle has to change, it changes.
Resources mentioned
Transcript
Read the transcript
This transcript was generated automatically and lightly edited for readability. It may contain minor errors.
Joel Pond: But come out of jail. Apprentice boilermaker. No business experience, but I'm gonna hit a mill this year. Sales, bro. And it just escalated. Snowballed, snowballed.
Paul Cohalan: Bit more, bit more.
Joel Pond: Just started with a bit of weed. Next minute. Yeah, caught with a kilo of gear and from square one. It's been the best shirt in your wardrobe or you keep it for free. Sold over 12,000 tees. I've only just paid myself for the first week after 20 months or something, otherwise I wouldn't be even paying me a dollar. Obviously I was posting organically the whole time.
Paul Cohalan: I think you can't measure the organic, but the organic builds the brand.
Joel Pond: Just got it connected, everything, suss it out, figured out. Figured out the hard way, bro. It's the barrier to entry to running a business. It's zero, bro.
Paul Cohalan: So got Joel Pond on from On Lock Clothing. That's what I know you're from and I don't know much else, so it's going to be pretty cool. The only bit of connection I think I got is Kane knowing you can't.
Joel Pond: Graham. Yeah, Shout out to Kane.
Paul Cohalan: Graham.
Joel Pond: Hooking us up. Yeah, Legend, bro.
Paul Cohalan: So talk to me. Where. Who. Who do you know that similar, like besides Kane?
Joel Pond: Besides Kane? I've met like Adrian. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So when did you get out? When you get on the version.
Joel Pond: 2020. 20. October or September 30, 2020. Yeah, just the other day. What's the day? Yeah, October. Yeah, just the other day actually. Yeah, I thought of it the other day.
Paul Cohalan: What, six years?
Joel Pond: Six years, yeah. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So Moses will start there and then I'll bounce. So you wa.
Joel Pond: Originally born Queensland born Queensland. Mareeba. I don't. I don't remember. Over there. We like swear on here.
Paul Cohalan: All good?
Joel Pond: Yeah. Mareeba. I moved over here when I started school or like pre. Pre primary kindergarten that age. And yeah, I've been here since then.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Okay. And where'd you live when you first.
Joel Pond: Come over in here? I'm in Mandurah. So. Mandurah Falcon. It's like 15 minutes south of Mandurah.
Paul Cohalan: Yep. Yeah, I know. I lived there when I first come over as well. And you're back there now. Yeah.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah, I grew up. I grew up there, like Falcon. Dawesville. I've been there. And then apart from jail for five years, then back to there, I've been there forever.
Paul Cohalan: Cracking spot.
Joel Pond: Dawesville. Sick. Man, man. Man is beautiful. Yeah. Like, it's a bad rap. Shout out to Mandurah, but it gets a bad rap. But it's a beautiful place. Scenery. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Disassociate from the bad. Yeah, yeah, it's a good place.
Paul Cohalan: I. I come over in 04 with the Navy and then I lived in Rockingham and spent heaps on Rockingham. Mandurah. Because it's Garden Island.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So I was down there for three and a half years or something. Yeah. So that was. I didn't know the rest of Perth until I moved up north.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: I still barely. I barely know Perth because I don't come up here much at all.
Paul Cohalan: Oh, you don't? So I can't believe you come all the way up. Yeah, I didn't realize.
Joel Pond: Oh, good, bro. Yeah, cool, man.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Anyway, so that's why I was early,.
Joel Pond: Because you never know. Traffic. I was like, yeah, can be a nightmare, probably.
Paul Cohalan: Is it better with school holidays?
Joel Pond: There was no. Yeah, there was no traffic. It was like an hour. Got up here maybe.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: An hour. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: A few months ago, I'm having lunch with Kane and he's like, fuck, I'll get Joel on. He's got On Lock Clothing. So tell us a bit about the clothing, man.
Joel Pond: On Lock Apparel.
Paul Cohalan: 21 Months you've been going brand.
Joel Pond: 21 Months. Yeah, yeah. Going strong, man. I was a boilermaker before that. FIFO boilermaker, rope access. But I only lasted 18 months and I was like, fuck, I'm not doing this forever. No way. Wanted to start a business and that's it. On Lock Apparel. Bang. Here we are, 21 months later. Doing good, man. Yeah, Scaling. Getting there.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. So how long did you think about it before? And what was the initial, like, what was the stuff you had to do at the beginning with clothing? It's outside. I got businesses. 10 Years. But, like, clothing's outside my pay grade.
Joel Pond: Yeah, it was outside my pay grade, too. It took me six months to make these shirts, bro. Like. Yeah, I went through, like, two suppliers, like, got samples, then picked the better one and then got sample. I was like, nah, better, different. Like, better fabric. And then I made all the measurements myself. Like, made the fit killer. Yeah, it took six months, like, eventually got a good fabric. I was like, bro, why'd you not send me that in the first place? Like. Cause it's expensive, bro. Like, yeah, I was, like, basing my business model on. On this sort of price. And then I got this fabric, and.
Paul Cohalan: Then you're like, that's what I'm doing.
Joel Pond: The price was almost double. I was like, oh, shit, bro. But I was like, I couldn't wear. I'm not wearing nothing else, man. I swear to God. You put on any other shirt from now, and it's just not the same.
Paul Cohalan: Like, yeah, okay. So you picked your market, basically, like, the better quality and the better price.
Joel Pond: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if that was super intentional in the beginning. I don't think I was even aiming for the premium, but it's just, like, I was just creating a shirt that I fucked with that I was keen on. I wanted to make a product that I could just back.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: Then I'm not. Wasn't faking it in ads. Oh, yeah, my product's here, Club. My. My product's sick, bro. Like, yeah, you're back at. But that's just how it turned out. So, yeah, my prices. I was. Yeah, I was kind of aiming on, like, a cheaper price point. And then by the time I'd worked out margins with this cotton, I was like, here's what it is, bro.
Paul Cohalan: So. So I can't remember what I paid. What do you pay for them? 80. 90 A shirt?
Joel Pond: Yeah, the hundred dollars a shirt, but you cop two. The save 10%. So 90 each.
Paul Cohalan: Yep. Yeah, I think you pay that nearly anywhere in the market for a decent 88.
Joel Pond: 90. It's around that.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I bought some. Another. What did I buy? I bought this in the singlet.
Joel Pond: And the beaters are good, too. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: The what?
Joel Pond: The beaters. The singlet.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, the singlet's wicked, man. I've wore it a bit around the house because obviously it's not hot enough yet, but. What else did I get off you? Oh, I think I might have got the socks, the shirt and the singlet.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah, sick. Yeah, socks are good, too. Yeah, socks are price.
Paul Cohalan: I wear them heaps.
Joel Pond: Yeah, sick, man.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. And where'd the name come from, man?
Joel Pond: Oh, Buzz. I was sitting there. I just. Man, I didn't spend that long thinking of names. And then on lock. It's a. It's a skate term because I skate heaps, like, as my whole life, basically, or child. And it's. Yeah. The on lock. The term is like, when you've got something, on lock, like, you've nailed it. You've practiced it 100 times over. And when I was thinking, the names I literally on lock came to my brain, and I didn't even think of any more names after that. I was like, oh, yes.
Paul Cohalan: You just had the gap.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm not. I'm not like, real. What's the word? Into strong on intuition or anything, but I was just like, yeah, on lock. I was, all right, that's it. That's the one.
Paul Cohalan: Done.
Joel Pond: That's done. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And what about the logo on that and the design? How long will that take you? Besides the shirt, the.
Joel Pond: The actual logo?
Paul Cohalan: Not.
Joel Pond: I don't know, not too long. I, like, tried a few ones. I had to learn so much stuff, man. Like. Like, yeah, computers, Adobe Illustrator, all this stuff. But obviously the T shirt designs. Every. I make new products every month and it's something new. Yeah, yeah, every month. There's a drop every month. I've dropped like 185 products or something.
Paul Cohalan: Oh, fuck.
Joel Pond: Hectic, bro. There's like 90 something sold out or something like that. Yeah, yeah, every month. Every month, bro. Something new. Something new.
Paul Cohalan: Is it profitable making new new designs every month? Like, I'm guessing it is if you keep doing it, but it depends what works and what doesn't.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, because the whole first year I was like the. The first thing you ever make, you don't know at all. Like, and you don't have a massive budget. Your mo. Your minimum audit on pieces is like 100. 100 Pieces for a shirt. So I can only pick. I picked a few colors. I made like, matching fits. Shorts, hats, everything. Shirts sold really quickly, but the shorts and that didn't. So that's a, like, instant lesson there.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: Because I wanted matching fits. You can't. You don't know. Everyone is going to want matching fits.
Paul Cohalan: They just want singles or.
Joel Pond: Yeah, just want the shirts. You just don't know. And then obviously then, Then especially back then, like, the shipping time I'd be putting in, I've just put in the order now for February, basically, or no, for January. And it used to be long. It used to be longer than that. And so you'd have to, like, before that, I even did my first drop. Like, you've paid. You've paid for that shipment months and months in advance. Then if you're planning the next month, you've got to pay the next one. The next month. So you've Already bought three, four drops. You haven't even started yet.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: You know what I mean? Like. Yeah, it's very cash flow.
Paul Cohalan: Suddenly you're winging it. You'll get to know the product, but.
Joel Pond: All of it and sizing as well. You don't know what size, size to go on.
Paul Cohalan: What's the common? Medium, Large.
Joel Pond: Yeah, Large, Medium, Large, Medium, Large, Medium.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, mate, they're wicked fit.
Joel Pond: They're quality.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: You've got the only fitted one we've made that's like a 260.
Paul Cohalan: And I'm more fitted than oversized.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And love this shirt. I wear heaps.
Joel Pond: Yes.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, it's wicked. I wore it to Dom Dolla. That's why I sent you that video. Yeah, it was wicked. In Melbourne.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: There's a bit like. What is it? There's only 20, like 28 customers at WA. The rest are over East.
Paul Cohalan: Well, my assistant that I took to Dom Dolla and her partner, I was taking the video and then I went and. Because I got. I bought six tickets for him and I'm talking to Dylan. He's like, man, my mate buys shitloads of that brand. And he's in. Oh, yeah, the border of Vicky South. Yeah.
Joel Pond: What's his name? Shout Out. Brody, I think Brody.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: Shout outs, bro. Appreciate you, man.
Paul Cohalan: I think. I think he said Brody buys. He's got it, like a fair bit.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Because you knew it straight away. As soon as I had it on together, bro.
Joel Pond: Someone's done 38 orders, bro. Some people. Someone spent over 10 grand already, like in 20 months. In 21 months, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: That's cool, man.
Joel Pond: That's.
Paul Cohalan: It's not.
Joel Pond: It's nuts. It's nuts. Yeah. It's nuts, bro. Yeah. I appreciate it. Shout out Shane and shout out Natalia and Hayden, whoever else at the top of the list, man.
Paul Cohalan: Where they from?
Joel Pond: Legends. Is it there over east? I'm pretty sure, yeah. Over east, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, it's wicked, man.
Joel Pond: It's really good.
Paul Cohalan: And do you, like, redo that? Like, if they. If okay. Don't worry about the person, but whatever. What do you sell out of?
Joel Pond: It's as I said, the first few months, six months, whole year, you're just guessing. You don't know. Like, you literally don't. I don't know what's. What's the bestseller, because that's the big thing with brands that have bestsellers, but you don't have any best sellers. Right. So you got to figure that out. This is what was selling good. These big logos on the back. I Don't know if I should get up, turn around, or what.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, go in front of the big Dodge.
Joel Pond: Dodge the mic, bro.
Paul Cohalan: No, you're right. You move it out of the way.
Joel Pond: Shameless plug there.
Paul Cohalan: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Joel Pond: Monolith. Monolith collection. I usually. Not on the mic.
Paul Cohalan: No, I just move. It's easy.
Joel Pond: This is the Monolith collection. Most of the collections have, like, a name behind them, like, Believe Grateful, like, positive names. This one's just model.
Paul Cohalan: It's actually what got me. Like, obviously I knew your brand, but I never really looked at it. I went and looked at it and I think. But they were oversized tees and I'm not really. I bought a couple of evidence ones and it's just not me.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah. And, yeah, get the extra smalls, bro. It's almost like a normal shirt. Yeah. I put on a small the other day and I was like, this is like a normal shirt. I've worn a normal shirt. I was like. I was like, I could just wear this, bro. Yeah. Because it's just. It's just the same purport like it is. It depends. Like, that's obviously shorter sleeves, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, if you've got an extra small.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, I can't remember which. It was a white one and it had circle of writing and the words were wicked.
Joel Pond: Yeah. My missus actually made that one.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. It's weird. Yeah.
Joel Pond: I can't remember what it says, but never a failure. Always a lesson.
Paul Cohalan: Always a lesson. That was it.
Joel Pond: That collection is called Fall and Rise.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Fall and Rise.
Joel Pond: She come up with that? Yeah, it's wicked. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: I think she's nailed it.
Joel Pond: My first one was Positive progressions.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: I've done one's called Grateful Believe.
Paul Cohalan: I've seen consistency. Yeah. I love that. Your. Your selection and your collections around, like, positive words. We could.
Joel Pond: Yeah, because why not? Like. Yeah. I don't even think that was, like, fully revealing. Oh, yeah. It was kind of intentional. But, like, why not now?
Paul Cohalan: I think it's like. Like, it got me straight away.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: I'm like. I love that.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Like, they're cool, casual shirts, but then you've got the positive words, which is really cool.
Joel Pond: Yeah. Because why not, bro? You're slapping logos. People are reading it like you've got words out there, elevated consistency, and you've.
Paul Cohalan: Done them really cool as well.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: The way they're embossed or whatever you call it. Yeah, Yeah.
Joel Pond: I appreciate. That's a massive, like, learning curve as well, because there's so many different techniques for clothes. Yeah. Like, different stitch, embroidery, printing, like, different kind of stitching, flash stitching.
Paul Cohalan: Talk to us about it. What's the. Like, just start with stitching or printing.
Joel Pond: The first. The first one I did was just like a simple embroidery and. Because that's all I really knew. Just simple. Like the On Lock logo. One on the sleeve, one on the front. Yeah. Nothing. Nothing too hectic. But you just. Yeah, people like embroidery because it just feels more premium, like.
Paul Cohalan: It does.
Joel Pond: It's. Yeah, it's just how it is. Yeah, that one's. That one's printed.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, But. But the shirt is sharp.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So it suits it.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah. That's a 260 fabric. I love that fabric. In summer, I'll be dropping most things that. That fabric's a little bit thinner. This is. This is a little bit thicker. Like, is it thicker again? A little bit thicker. Yeah. Yeah. So in summer, like, this is the. This is the one. Like, we just have the guarantee if this is not the best feeling tee in your wardrobe, you keep it for free. Like, that is. That is legitimately the guarantee. And we've had six people claim it and I've sold over 12,000 tees. Like, yeah, the numbers. The numbers is, like, beyond stupid, bro. Like, so that's all my ads. That's what I say. If it's not the best tee in your wardrobe, you can keep it for free, bro. And it's genuine because if someone comes in, that's why it's good. It's a higher price point because not going to get people buying 30 shirts going, oh, it's a shit shirt. I want a refund. Like, it's only if people who genuinely.
Paul Cohalan: They spend bucks or whatever, spend 100.
Joel Pond: Bucks on a shirt, 90 bucks on a shirt, and they genuinely get it. And like, oh, no, it's a shit. I'm only six.
Paul Cohalan: That's okay.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah. One person said, yeah, he wanted the money back. He just said. He said, it's good. Another shirt feels better. He emailed back six months later, said, after washing it, all this, it's actually the best in my wardrobe. I want to repair it.
Paul Cohalan: I read that when you put it.
Joel Pond: Up and I made ads and I was like, you can't make this shit up. Right? You can't make it up.
Paul Cohalan: And, like, it's good that he's come back six months later and.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And let his wolves down and said,.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah, he didn't have to do that at all. I just said, bro, if you spend it back in the brand, no worries.
Paul Cohalan: Don't worry about it.
Joel Pond: Just. Yeah, back in.
Paul Cohalan: Send him T shirts. That's wicked. That's. That's cheap marketing.
Joel Pond: Yeah, cheap marketing but.
Paul Cohalan: But genuine and authentic as well. Yeah. I'll tell you what, I love that.
Joel Pond: The tags.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I put that.
Joel Pond: But I put that thing on it. Yeah. I struck that thing on everything, man. Pants, shorts, track pants. Yeah. These are some cargo pants. Yeah. We haven't sold heaps of these. These are sick, man. Like these full custom, hot like everything. I went right on with it, bro. Like this. I went right on.
Paul Cohalan: What are your margins roughly?
Joel Pond: Depends on the product, man. Like you've gotta, you've got to aim for about like 70. But that's before jet. Like that's so much, isn't that? Yeah, but like I've like yeah, I've got. I've actually just quit my coaching course. They're actually good. That's not why I've quit them. But they had taught me full numbers. Lay out all your numbers and that. And like my. For the first six months a year my variable costs. Right, which is like your product costs, shipping, all that stuff. Yeah, we're sitting around like 50%, bro. This coaching course wanted it around 20, 30. Like I'm still, I'm still nailing it down. Nail it down. It's around 36% at the moment. 40% But that's just upping prices, bundling like so many little variables to up it and stuff like that.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Wow.
Joel Pond: A lot goes into it. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. So you've learned a lot. Which is really cool, bro. That's why I do the journey. Actually. I didn't even really explain to you. So yeah, that's good.
Joel Pond: But same as you, I like freestyle's better for me.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, mate, it's so good. Like I wanted to do this for about three years and I just love having combos about people personally, business and all that. And I finally did it and it was probably self judgment why it took so long, but I'm glad it took the time to start this year. And now man, it's like, it's wicked like hearing like the troubles people go through. So what made you do it? Is it because you didn't want to? You're boiler you said.
Joel Pond: Yeah, boiler.
Paul Cohalan: You got out of the clink, you went and boilied. Were you already a trade before you went in?
Joel Pond: Nah, half. I had to get out, finish it.
Paul Cohalan: Did you finish it?
Joel Pond: Yeah, I finished it. Yeah, I finished it. So you're on like Money.
Paul Cohalan: You're Terminus 5 years in there.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Paul Cohalan: Just to get, like, get out, live normal world.
Joel Pond: Oh, bro, you're just. Just getting back to normal world, bro. Like. Yeah, the best thing about it is just the gratitude, like, when you get out, bro, a normal bed, just driving a car around, like some simple things were hectic, but that. That fades, like, within a week, bro. You already. You already catch yourself being ungrateful after a week. That's.
Paul Cohalan: But at least you catch yourself. That's the key, right?
Joel Pond: A big grateful is a big thing for me, bro. Like, that's why my attitude's good because, like, life's not that bad, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, that's wicked, man. That's really, that's. It's great to have you on as well and paint that picture because I appreciate it. You've been humbled. I actually got a friend, a female, and she just got locked up for 18 months. Oh, yeah, she's going to come on here, actually. I'll catch her on the weekend. And she's got out and she's blown away. She was in tears. She melted down. She's like. And it was partly her fault, but partly someone else's. And she got out and she's just so humbled. She's got two girls and she's so humbled. She's like, life's not that bad. Exactly what you said, right? Like, we. We complain about dumb first world problems. Yeah, go. Go be in concrete wars.
Joel Pond: It's the west. What's the west, bro? Yeah, just the west, man. Life too easy.
Paul Cohalan: So before. Before going in the clink, you can talk about why you went in if you want. I'm not going to ask you.
Joel Pond: Yeah, it's drugs, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Drugs.
Joel Pond: Selling drugs. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: You got done?
Joel Pond: Got done. Yeah, it's just from, like, teenage years, like, selling a bit of weed. And I was doing my apprenticeship when I was like, 17, and then the same thing, man. I was on like 8.90 an hour. I was like, this sucks, bro. And then I literally, like, sell a bit of weed on the way home. Make more money on a little scooter ride on the way home, you know what I mean? And I'm like, what the am I doing this for, bro? Like, no, not any passion in it. I was a shit employee back then. Apologies to my employees, but good worker. When I was there, I was doing. I was first year apprentice doing tradie work essentially. But, yeah, never there on time, like.
Paul Cohalan: Yep. The discipline wasn't there.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah. Not disciplined, but, yeah, that's what happened. Yeah, quit my apprenticeship and I didn't work for a year but I just skated and yeah, just cruised. Cruised around.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: Then as I got a bit older, worked a bit again.
Paul Cohalan: How old are you now?
Joel Pond: 31.
Paul Cohalan: And how old were you when you. 20, When you took the year off?
Joel Pond: I want to take the year off. Was that 8? Like 18. 1890. 18. I went in at 20 years and then I just. Yeah, worked a bit more for another six months and quit again. And then yeah, I was just selling things bro. And it just escalated, snowballed, snowballed.
Paul Cohalan: Bit more, bit more.
Joel Pond: Just started with a bit of weed. Next minute. Yeah, caught with a kilo of gear and see you later like. Yeah, yeah. Seven year sentence. Catch you later. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And you got out after five, eh?
Joel Pond: After five, yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Talk to us about in there if you want. How was.
Joel Pond: Depends on your perspective ground. Okay, but depends on your perspective, bro. Like Max, not, not before I say anything, not encouraging jail at all. Don't go there. It's shit bro. It's for flops. Don't go there. Trying not to go there, but depends where you are.
Paul Cohalan: And your perspective shifted you for when you got out. Yeah.
Joel Pond: 100 But I think I needed to go. I didn't, I didn't need five years. Oh I didn't need like to spend there. But I need, I needed it. I needed it.
Paul Cohalan: Hit you.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100.
Paul Cohalan: Cool man.
Joel Pond: But yeah, when, when you get in, maximum sucks. Maximum because you're locked in like you're. Hakea, everyone goes to Hakea. First you locked in yourself at 12, like 6 till 6 you locked in your cell. Then you get. Come out, get breakfast and that. You go work for a bit. You get like an hour maybe wreck like free time a day. The rest you're in your wing. What's that? Free time. You're like walking around but you're playing cards. Like you get a TV in there, you buy Xbox in there. Like you get Xbox on your entire day in there. So yeah, so it's like that's what I mean. It's even that like you're locked in a cell, it's whatever. But if you're good at switching off, I'm good at switching off, switch off, kick back, play some games, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Do the time.
Joel Pond: Do the time, bro. But yeah, maximum sucks. But then when you move your way down and it's oh, summer, don't go on summer, bro. Especially definitely you have a choice. But anyway, yeah, any season. But then when you get to medium, it starts getting like. And once again, like, you could ask 100 different people, they'll give you 100 different answers, bro. Some people struggle in there.
Paul Cohalan: Depends on your mindset and attitude.
Joel Pond: I cruise through it.
Paul Cohalan: You cruise? You do?
Joel Pond: Yeah. Like, not. Like, when people ask me Joe hectic, I'm like, honestly, no, if I cruise through it, it's not. It can't be that hectic, bro. Like, it can't be that hectic over here. But when you get to mediums, it's like, bro, you get good routines. You gym, like, I was playing tennis flat out in mediums.
Paul Cohalan: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Joel Pond: Okay. And then minimums. Yeah, Once again, it gets more freedom, more better.
Paul Cohalan: Yep.
Joel Pond: And you meet like all my. I don't really see anyone I knew from the past and that's, that's like, not intentionally really, but the lads I do talk to and hang out with now, I'll meet in there. Shout out everyone in the dale, but they're the same as me. Young, like lads trying to sell drugs, make money the wrong way and then snap out of it when they're in there and figure it out and still good. Like good. Human just made mistakes and then, yeah, like, yes, I've met heaps of good dudes in there, same as me.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool, man. It's. It's so good that you come out and you're like, you got the gratitude and you, you self reflect. Hold a mirror up.
Joel Pond: Yeah, some people don't, bro. Like, bro. And when you're in the Hate the.
Paul Cohalan: World, everyone else's fault.
Joel Pond: And when you, when you're in their five years, you see so many people come in and out. Yeah, yeah, like in and out three or four times, right? And you're just like, holy.
Paul Cohalan: Oh, the same person.
Joel Pond: Yeah, the same person, bro. Yeah, the same person. They'll go, go in like six months, whatever. See him a few months later, like, heaps. Can you learn me dead, bro? Like, yeah, some people don't learn, bro.
Paul Cohalan: So any, Any while we're on the jail thing, you got any good stories?
Joel Pond: What do you mean by good?
Paul Cohalan: Oh, anything you want good. What, what. What's some of the things that went on in there? Good or bad?
Joel Pond: My, my memories of it is nothing but good, bro. Yeah, honestly, I don't have any. Like.
Paul Cohalan: So what'd you do? Tennis? Did you cook in there? Did you?
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah. When you, when you're maximum, the food's like, there's no gym. Like, you Just you can do pull ups, push ups and like that. I was, I start training at Hakea. I didn't start training until like a year in or whatever.
Paul Cohalan: Where was Medium at Hakea still?
Joel Pond: Nah, in Acacia. So I was up in like Wooroloo area and then I went to another medium called. I went to five places within the time, bounced around. I know at a place called Wandoo that was like under 29. It's just under 29 year old offenders. So it's just like young dudes like me, we're playing indoor soccer like every day.
Paul Cohalan: Wow. It's not better like make the time go. How long did you go there for?
Joel Pond: I was only there for nine months, bro. And that was the. This is hectic. This was like the best jail in WA for rehabilitation rate. They then they shut it down, turned it into a female prison, like the best jail in WA and they got, got rid of her. So we were there when they transitioned. So by that like we started there was only like 90 people there. When I got there after nine months there was me and two other people in there. At one point it was me, one dude in there for like a week. Wow. Yeah, it was hectic, it was weird. But the best rehabilitation rate. Nah, shut that shit down, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, it's crazy.
Joel Pond: Shout out to government. Yeah, shout out to government. Good job, Good job. Once again. Yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Let's not get on that tangent.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Isn't there some topics at the moment?
Joel Pond: Yeah, but good stories, bro. Like bro, I used to train with like I learned. I took up the gym in there. Took up boxing in there.
Paul Cohalan: Yep.
Joel Pond: Played sports with lads. Tennis and there like sick times, bro. Having a good time playing cards, heaps of cards and you had a lot.
Paul Cohalan: Of time to think and sit in your bro.
Joel Pond: That's the biggest thing in your own space. People do like no one disconnects nowadays. You got your phone. I haven't disconnected for ages. But then in there you're five years. No technology, no nothing. Bro. If you can't figure your out after that, like you've got to go through challenge and.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joel Pond: People, yeah. Like you've got to process stuff and.
Paul Cohalan: Figure out, use it for what it is.
Joel Pond: Gotta accept. Yeah, accept and yeah. Play the cards you dealt with. I mean.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Which it's all from our own actions, right?
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And if you, if you take a lot of that in a good attitude, you'll get a better outcome. Yeah.
Joel Pond: Life's just moment by moment. So if you just, if you just make your best move in the Moment you go there.
Paul Cohalan: So what was you got siblings? What was shoulder like brother?
Joel Pond: Yeah, brother. Older brother. 18 Months older.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah, wicked close to the.
Joel Pond: But he lives in Canada now. He's been over, he's lived there for. Since before I got out. So he's been there for like six years or something now. But yeah, closers always close as kids, like. Yeah, real good, real good family. Real good childhood.
Paul Cohalan: Yep.
Joel Pond: Yeah, close with my brothers hang out. My brother heaps played sports, skated. Yeah, it's good.
Paul Cohalan: Do you still skate?
Joel Pond: Nah, I haven't even stepped foot on a board like at a skate park for over a year. Yeah, I skate to take my bins out at my warehouse. Yeah, I chuck my board down, skate out there. But I might go. I'll go sometime, man, because I can still go there and do a couple of things like.
Paul Cohalan: Oh, you can?
Joel Pond: Yeah, I can, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: That's.
Joel Pond: Yeah, because I was. That's what I used to do, man. But I'm banged up from skating, bro. Banged up from. I don't go do it because like you go there, you're timid, you get hurt, like you're scared to get hurt. So you get hurt and then you can't train. You hurt your wrist. Yeah, the. As you get older, the downsides of it. Yeah, the risk of it.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: You know you sound old as saying that, bro. I was always like, no, I'll skate forever.
Paul Cohalan: You don't repair as quick, do you? Or as good. So what. So you know, Mrs. You said earlier Mrs. Yeah, helped you with the clothing and that. You got kids?
Joel Pond: Yeah, she's got a kid. Yeah. I'll step old man. Stepdad.
Paul Cohalan: Nine. Nine year old boy.
Joel Pond: Boy, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Boy, yeah. Are you close with him? Yeah, wicked.
Joel Pond: I'm. I'm dad, bro. Yeah, I'm yeah. 100. Yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: How long you been with her?
Joel Pond: For five years now. Close to five years, yep. Four or five years. Yeah. Yeah, good, bro. Yeah. So before April. Yeah, shout out to April, man.
Paul Cohalan: So before you went in.
Joel Pond: Nah, nah, after after I've got out, I was got out. I met her after maybe 18 months or something. I got out in 20, 20.
Paul Cohalan: Oh, you got out in 20?
Joel Pond: 20, 20.
Paul Cohalan: So you went.
Joel Pond: Yeah, got arrested 2015 when I was 20 and got out.
Paul Cohalan: Oh, when you're 20 and you got out in 2020, yeah, I get you, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's right. So when you. Before you went in. So when did you go in? 2015. When you were 20?
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And then you're 25 when you got out then. Yeah. So five years. So before you went in, what kind of life are you living besides selling? Were you quiet still or you a menace?
Joel Pond: No, because I was like. My demeanor. What was I like? Yeah. 80, 19, 20. My demeanor. I was like a pretty shy, reserved guy. But yeah, kind of like I still am now. Like. Yeah, I wasn't a menace at all. I was never a menace. I was raised good. I was just. You just wanted to make money.
Paul Cohalan: Yes.
Joel Pond: Then you got to see the morality and it got done.
Paul Cohalan: Black and white. Done easy. Yeah. Yeah.
Joel Pond: Just know what escalated. It's just lack of when you're young. Looking back now, I had zero consequential thinking, bro. Like, you just don't think of consequences in the future. I was just reckless. Like, I wasn't a menace, but I was just reckless. I drive around both kilos, on in the footwell, in the car.
Paul Cohalan: Like, just, just didn't like. Stupidity.
Joel Pond: Stupidity, bro. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And it's probably good that you were because you got. It's like you said, it's good that you went in. So like the positive out of it. You know what I mean? You obviously don't want to go in. Yeah.
Joel Pond: All comes full circle, man. Like, think about it lately. Like all. As you get older, you realize these traits you have that the ones that you over, they're the good traits that help you now, you just got to channel them.
Paul Cohalan: So that risk heaps. The last five years myself.
Joel Pond: Yeah. And I love it.
Paul Cohalan: Everything. I'm gonna actually put a sign up here. What if it happens for you? Not to you. Every single thing happens for you.
Joel Pond: 100.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: 100.
Paul Cohalan: Like whether it's death, whether it's really bad, whether, like even the business, like, had a big downfall last 12 months, two years, I'm like, let's go bushfire.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: What happens at the end of a bushfire? Green shoots.
Joel Pond: Green shoots.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: Love it. Exactly.
Paul Cohalan: Bring it on. Otherwise stick your head in the sand.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And then you dwell on it for three years and you're stressed and you get sick.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Well, you go, let's go learn from. Won't do that again.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: You know?
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah, Exactly. Yeah. I.
Paul Cohalan: And I. I think it's helped me when I divorced. I separated two years ago. It's helped me a lot. What? What if it happens for you? Not to you. Every single thing. 100 And we can all high five and win. That's easy. Yeah. But the struggles is the bit where you learn and grow.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah. It goes. It goes both ways. Like everything, everything happens for a reason. But some things don't happen for a reason. You get to decide. You get to decide what happens.
Paul Cohalan: Your own actions.
Joel Pond: Reasons.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: 100 Bro. But I did, like, I'm not made of money now whatsoever. But I don't think I was ready to have money or make money then. Like, I just don't think that's cool.
Paul Cohalan: Way of thinking about it. Wasn't ready, didn't value it.
Joel Pond: So I think that's. That's just. This is part of the process. It's how it had to be.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. So. So you got the clothing brand. You've sold what, 12,000 shirts. Yeah.
Joel Pond: 12,000 Shirts by like 19,000 products. 1 1.5 Million. 5 Mil clothes out there. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: How many products you got? How many different. What do they call it? Oh, you know what, Shark Tank, they call it something. Not units. What do they call each design or collection?
Joel Pond: Collection drop. But you got different colorways, different size. Like different sizes. But products, different shirts. If you go different, like this is one product, different colorways, a different product. I think I've dropped 185 or something. It's like 90. Sold out. Something like that.
Paul Cohalan: What of that shirt or design? Different designs.
Joel Pond: 99. 80 Products. Oh, different products, bro. So we've got like cargo pants, the shirts. I don't know how many Shirts. Exactly. But every. Every month I've done a new collection. Maybe one or two months. Was only a restock because I've been like, obviously this last six months. Last year I've been restocking because you can figure out what sells. Obviously you want to bring that back in. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: What's your top three products? These.
Joel Pond: These monolith shirts have been so these different colorways on this. There's a blood red one, Tiffany one blackfeet pink. These ones been going heaps. I've actually kind of. Yeah. Stocked up on these ones. Fall and Rise tee. Yes, mate, that one's doing good at the moment. Just. I just had a new. I just had my best drop ever a few weeks ago. I wasn't expecting it to be, but I had products sold out two days. Oh, wow. New jersey.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: Like a white jersey with red. Red logo. Yeah, yeah. That was gone two days, bro. See you later.
Paul Cohalan: I was gonna ask you about that. We'll talk about marketing first. So.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So what got your brand out there? Just paid ads. You just paid ads? That's it?
Joel Pond: Yeah, that's it.
Paul Cohalan: No period. No affiliation or people or just paid ads.
Joel Pond: Paid ads. Right. I think that's, if you ask me, the easiest, least skill route because organically, obviously I was posting organically the whole time, but none of that's taken off. Like that's a real skill, bro. That's. People have to physically want to watch that ads. You are throwing them at them, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, but I think like I done. I've done digital for about five years. Like websites and digital marketing. I think you can't measure the organic, but the organic builds the brand depends.
Joel Pond: But some people just do organic and they freaks at it, bro. They don't do ads. Some clothing brands don't do ads, bro. Like, it's just different people.
Paul Cohalan: Whatever suits you, whatever works.
Joel Pond: But I'm too dependent on ads. 100%.
Paul Cohalan: Yep.
Joel Pond: 100%.
Paul Cohalan: If it works for you, man, this.
Joel Pond: Is how it is. But I need to grow my personal account. I need to film everything. I just don't, like, I just don't, man. I like, I don't wake up and just want to shove a camera in my face and talk to all day long. Like, it's just hard. So I reckon I get away for a clothing brand this size. I get away with the bare minimum content, I reckon.
Paul Cohalan: Do you?
Joel Pond: Bare minimum content. I. Bad time. I've got a drop next week. I've got no content for it, bro. Literally nothing. I got a few website photos in that so, like, bare minimum.
Paul Cohalan: But I watched, I sat there and went through some of your organic content. It was really good.
Joel Pond: Oh, thanks, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, no, it's good.
Joel Pond: Yeah, but it doesn't like it. I mean, it doesn't perform. But it depends what you'd like. Not that you got the views as a vanity metric, I don't give two about. But it doesn't bring in money. It doesn't bring in organic money either. Like my bit. My. Do you post it?
Paul Cohalan: You don't post every day, do you?
Joel Pond: Not on the business account. Nah, the missus runs that. That's only every few days. Every couple days or something. So I meant to post on my personal account every day, but I posted on there for ages, bro. I don't even post on there at all. Just like, I just imagine if you.
Paul Cohalan: Did for like six months.
Joel Pond: Yeah, every day. Oh, right. Yeah, 100%.
Paul Cohalan: You would be able to keep up the.
Joel Pond: Yeah, but it's. But you're running. I've got to run a business at the same time. That's. That's the thing. To me, I'm just like. That's priority. That'll keep going. Okay. Going for more content. More content. Keep growing, keep growing. Story gets better. Not follow. But I've definitely seen a lot of his. Definitely watched his videos.
Paul Cohalan: I've gone to two of his conferences.
Joel Pond: Yeah, he's a freak.
Paul Cohalan: I've been following him about six years, I reckon.
Joel Pond: Yeah, I try not to listen to his content because he's like social brand, social fan. I'm like, I'm not doing that right now. Yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: But you know, though, it's good that he. Because when you're ready.
Joel Pond: Oh, he's picked all the plays, bro. He's picked all the platforms that are blown up.
Paul Cohalan: Everything.
Joel Pond: Yes.
Paul Cohalan: And he's dirty that he didn't invest in Uber. That's his. That's his fish.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: He invested in Twitter. He read everything. Even TikTok, man. He was talking about that five years ago.
Joel Pond: Get the next one.
Paul Cohalan: We couldn't invest in it because it was China.
Joel Pond: He's actually said live selling.
Paul Cohalan: He's right now, TikTok, live selling and. And what's.
Joel Pond: What not.
Paul Cohalan: What not or whatever. Yes.
Joel Pond: That's another one.
Paul Cohalan: Two days ago I seen one. He's like, just wake up in the morning, get on TikTok and go live and talk about anything. You will get a following without a doubt.
Joel Pond: He goes, go in there and talk live.
Paul Cohalan: He goes, I'm spewing because I don't do it. Enough.
Joel Pond: Well, and people, how many just every.
Paul Cohalan: Morning talk about the guy down the road that was mowing his lawn and he'd done a shit job, and then.
Joel Pond: Just get followers for an hour every.
Paul Cohalan: Morning to get on TikTok live.
Joel Pond: Because who's the people making the most banking nowadays, bro? Streamers.
Paul Cohalan: Streamers. The more content the algorithm and the way TikTok spits out, because you don't just get your followers, you get randoms. And they'll jump on, they'll go. You're talking about that there. Selling shirts. Cool.
Joel Pond: You heard of clippers?
Paul Cohalan: You know what clippers are?
Joel Pond: Yes.
Paul Cohalan: I only just read about it the other night.
Joel Pond: Bo. People pay their clippers. So clippers, like hundreds. So people are streaming constantly. Got a camera crew streaming them. And while it's streaming, they've got people making clips of it and they're paying people making their videos 50 grand a month. And they've got. Because that's how they get so many views out. They've got so many accounts posting their highlights.
Paul Cohalan: I only read this two nights ago.
Joel Pond: Overload. Overload of organic content. Instead of paying Zuckerberg and paying Zuckerberg, paying the creators to kind of bomb it out there and make it so it's a channel to look into.
Paul Cohalan: Because what are they doing? They're playing. Playing it. Right? And they're talking about it. Hey, like this shirt or this video, the guy on the front is over voicing. That's the clipper in it.
Joel Pond: No, no, the clip is just like. Say we're. Say this is live right now. This is live right now. I've got 10 dudes back there. The second some of that footage comes through, they're taking it, making a clip and posting it. And then even after they're talking in.
Paul Cohalan: Front of it, though, they're talking about the clip.
Joel Pond: Oh, no, they don't have to. No, no. They just post it on an account.
Paul Cohalan: That's not what it means.
Joel Pond: It's just to build up views. It's just to build up views because they get. Let's say they've got. Let's say they made a good piece of content and they posted on just their one account. They've got an army of people creating it. So they got a million views. They've now got 100 people getting a million views. They're getting paid. They're getting paid per views. Flip is making bank, bro. The ones that do it for the big streamers, making bank. Streamers are bigger than I heard this business guy talking about. Alex Hormozi, bro. He was saying he went to some of you watch some event. There's people coming in like celebrities come in, bit of a cheer, bit of a cheer. The like TikTok YouTube guys come in. Bit bigger cheer, bit bigger cheer. And then the streamers come on. Everyone going off like the streamers are the biggest and they're. I heard someone say if you're getting 2,000 constant views, you're making bank on stream. So they're walking around over 2,000 people. Just watching them live their life, bro. They're just doing dumb shit. Meeting up with people, meeting up with celebrities and getting. And if They've got over 2,000 views, a constant like an average, an average view and they'd have, they've had 10,000 hundreds of thousands of people watching them. They're getting paid so much from the platforms. Right. It's nuts. It's a different world, bro. Yeah. I'm always like if by street. Like I hate putting a camera on my face but I was like, bro, if you're getting paid bank and. But you need to live a kind of like semi exciting life. I feel I just sit in my office at the moment, bro. I'm sitting like it's nothing good. But if you're out there doing stuff like people make a bank, bro. Just, just walk around with the camera crew filming them.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. That's another level. I couldn't do that. Like I'm trying to post every day at the moment just to be consistent and even if it doesn't, if it's. I'm just trying to be consistent.
Joel Pond: You're doing better than me.
Paul Cohalan: I am nearly even. Like I do my, my lift. I do every day I go have a good day. Have a cracker day. Wednesday or Wednesday or five in the morning, going to boxing, whatever. I just, I just post. Yeah. And I do my kids a lot actually. There's another reason behind that. But I just post every day to get my psychological of it to be consistent. Because I'm about to on all my brands. I'm recording every Wednesday.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And insurance at the journey. Like I've got one a week going out of this. Even this is indirectly like crazy.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And I'm. I'm doing the bare minimum. There's so much low hanging fruit I can do.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And I'm just learning it now.
Joel Pond: It's just work, bro.
Paul Cohalan: It is work.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And it's like Alex Hormozi goes, if you're not doing three hours of content a day as the owner.
Joel Pond: Yeah. He's the rule of 100.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, he. He's a weapon.
Joel Pond: Yeah, he's a weapon. Yeah, he's even his misses. I've probably spent. I was probably spent 70 grand, over 60 grand on course, like E commerce courses, coaching, all this stuff. Honestly, most of it. Most of it not wasted the wrong word. Most of it not needed. Can find it on YouTube. I've listened to Hormozi, but it put you there, though. Yeah, yeah, definitely for a reason. But almost all information I've ever paid money for, you can get it on YouTube, like legitimately. But sometimes it's just that when it's organized in a system everything framework, it's not a waste of money. You have to. I think being an individual that's willing to spend that much money on that individual education, that that mindset itself will.
Paul Cohalan: Allow you to go into the gym. And I was paying a PG101 and people are like, you pay 80 or 100 or 150 for the PG. And I'm like, like, how much do I spend on piss on the weekend? It's an investment.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah, that's great.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah. Pt And I need it for accountability. Not even. Yeah. Two weights. It's like you're paying someone to kick your ass. And I make decisions every day. I'll walk in, I'm like, tell me what to do. Yeah, Because I don't want to.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Same as going into boxing at six in the morning. I'm like, yeah, tell me what to do.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: I don't want to think. Yeah, just.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah, man. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: That's a little accountability and consistency.
Joel Pond: That's the main thing with a lot of coaches, man. That's the main thing, accountability. A lot of people need it on certain things. Like I would need it for content, for instance. But I train. I've trained consistent consistently for ages, bro.
Paul Cohalan: After.
Joel Pond: Nah, I only started once I was in. After boxing. You mean weights, weights, man. I didn't start boxing until like the last year. Maybe a bit of boxing. Yeah. Started weights in there and just consistently training the whole time. I've not like. Yeah, I've not been very consistent, but I'm not progressive overloading. I'm not focused. I'm just maintaining, bro.
Paul Cohalan: I've been doing.
Joel Pond: Yeah, just going the bare minimum, could you say? You know what I mean? Just making happen.
Paul Cohalan: That's good, man. It's better than people.
Joel Pond: But I literally not sound like I'm not big or anything, but I walk around under 10 body fat permanently. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I should do that. But yeah, wicked number like yeah, I'm in. Good. Yeah. Could I put on more muscle? 100. Should I 100 train harder and track and everything? Yeah, but.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, but you've got to be the biggest.
Joel Pond: Yeah. The biggest area.
Paul Cohalan: You go harder and then you don't meet it.
Joel Pond: It.
Paul Cohalan: Because you've got business and family, you'll stop.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So you. You're nailing it.
Joel Pond: Yeah. 100.
Paul Cohalan: That's always my issue.
Joel Pond: I'm like, all.
Paul Cohalan: Another.
Joel Pond: Yeah, I'll get to the gym because I'll. If I go, I've been worse this year than any. Any. But if I go two days and I'm like, you didn't train a couple days. It's like, oh, you gotta go, bro. The other day. But I don't run. I never run. I hate running. I hate it. I went for a 3k run, just a quick one. Was it yesterday?
Paul Cohalan: Oh, I did. Yeah.
Joel Pond: The day before. And it was. I stupid, bro. I was like. Because I was sitting there, I didn't train. I was delaying training. I was like, bro, shut the and go do something, bro. I was like, you hate running. Go run. And I went to ran at the beach. It was windy, it was raining. It was sucked, bro. And I was like. I was laughing because I was jumped out, had my hoodie on. I was about to run. I was like, I'm not running my hoodie, bro. That had to take it off. It's shirtless. And it was like I was laughing my ass off. But it's raining, pissing down. I was like, you're a brother. Then 3.3K. Run quickly. Yeah. Just got to do something, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Oh, you hate running. But you whipped out. 3K is not bad.
Joel Pond: Me and Quinny, I think it took me 13 minutes or something. 14 Minutes. Not like. And that was windy. Yeah. I've got. I think I've just got the physique, the limb measurements for running. I've always was. I don't run ever. But I could jump on a treadmill and do 19 minutes. I'll do it. Yeah. Definitely not. Not easy, but just some people. Just mechanics, bro. Yeah, I just kind of. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Me and Quinny a couple of days ago, we ran for a 5.8k is just a trick. Scarborough.
Joel Pond: Yes.
Paul Cohalan: Wicked. The coast is wicked, man. I'm like, I need to run along here more often because I got. I got a gym in the apartment.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And I'll just go on the treadmill and go.
Joel Pond: Yes. Yeah, because I don't come here even when I come to Subi. I'm like, this is sick, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Like, yeah, I love it here now. And I've got this. I'll probably. I want to get a warehouse because I down the office and I don't need an office for people, you know, just the model of the business. But this shared office. Wicked. And Kane come in and done all this for me. Like, the moment I moved in, he done it. I said, next week I want to record.
Joel Pond: I legitimately am just about to get someone to put, like, they're saying, just in my little office, because I've just.
Paul Cohalan: Came down it for me straight away.
Joel Pond: Oh, two lovely. Yeah. Two walls of, like, concrete looks good. Two walls of bricks. I was like, I just need something.
Paul Cohalan: Bit of cladding or, you know, whatever. It's wicked. I put it in the office. It brown one. It looks really nice. It's wicked, man. So do you have a plan with the clothing or you just keep doing what you do every day, or do you want to double it, triple it?
Joel Pond: I'll probably grow it to make money, bro. Yeah. I'm not gonna lie. That's the motivation is to. But money's not the motivation. I've seen money now as freedom tokens, man. Like, I honestly think if I had a hundred mil in the bank, life's not too much different, bro. Like, I wouldn't be working as hard, I'll tell you that much. But I'll be waking up, training, kicking back with the fam, eat food. Yeah. Like, it's. So the goal is just to grow it. Grow the, bro. Keep going, keep scaling, keep scaling.
Paul Cohalan: I say, I talk about a lot, like, why people. People start a business and everyone thinks it's money. And if you start with money and focus, you pay yourself a dollar an hour and you don't make money for five years. Right.
Joel Pond: In business, like, I haven't paid myself a dollar. I've just. I've just started to now.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, because you bust your ass, you do all the hard, and you've got to love what you do, not do it for money, because you've got to get through the hard days. I talk about this heaps. You've got to love what you do, because when you're laying on the floor and there's big challenges, you've got to get through it. It's not the wins. They're easy to get through.
Joel Pond: Yeah, see, I. I don't. I don't. I don't think I'M that even pay. I shouldn't even say this, but I don't think I'm that passionate about. No, I don't think I'm that passionate about anything, bro, to be honest. But like, so that when I'm. I don't sit there going, I like. I don't sit there going, oh, I love this. I love this. I don't really.
Paul Cohalan: You might show your passion different because I watch your organic clips, man. And you. And you do them authentically.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah, I love them. Oh, I love the product 100. Yeah. The best things you might not show.
Paul Cohalan: Like, I do. I'm energetic and all that. Yeah. But I watch your clips, man. You're doing wicked.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah. Sick, man.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: Well, I want to get samples and that's. That's me trying on the samples I ordered. I'm like, yes, because you've designed something that's genuine.
Paul Cohalan: Like, so how do you design it? What's the process?
Joel Pond: Just get inspiration. Look at what you like. Tweak it. My first. My first. My first collection was very similar to another brand. I'm not. I'm not afraid to say it because you don't. I don't know what was going to sell. I know that thing sells. Like if you listen to the. One of the best designers by Virgil Abloh, director. Louis V. Had passed away. Now he had the 3% rule. He's. He'd take anything. If you tweak it by 3%, it's. It's new. So it's not saying you should just copy someone straight out, but it's like it's very hard to create something completely new and authentic.
Paul Cohalan: Not much things are innovated.
Joel Pond: Everything's been happened, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Where do you.
Joel Pond: Where did you draw your inspiration from anyway? Unless you had your eyes.
Paul Cohalan: Style. Popular style.
Joel Pond: Exactly. You've seen, bro. So yeah. And I see the oversized team.
Paul Cohalan: These man last six months are just. Everyone's doing them.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Probably more than six.
Joel Pond: Whatever. Front Runner. Shout out Front Runner, bro. Because they're big inspiration there. But they're killing. Yeah. They've been killing it for. I don't even. I don't even know who really started the oversized tee. Exactly. This kind of style. I think maybe Front Runner, bro. Kind of made this cut because that was one of my inspirations. I just tweaked their measurements. I took their shirt, another shirt, tweaked the measurements, made it that I thought was better. That made the sleeves longer. A little different measurement here. There. Just because I wanted to make that was just that was just so. I knew the marketing would be easier. Because imagine if you made it. If I half asked the product and I'm going, oh, yeah, buy my shirt, bro. It's fucking sick.
Paul Cohalan: I'm a shirt designer. I've never done it before. And then you do something totally different. Doesn't sell.
Joel Pond: Yeah. From square one. It's been the best shirt in your wardrobe. Or you keep it for free. Like, that's been.
Paul Cohalan: That's wicked.
Joel Pond: Square one, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Does anyone else do that? Did you get that anywhere? Or do you. You're just. I'm gonna do quality. I'm gonna back it.
Joel Pond: Yeah, I'm gonna back it. I've never heard that with clothes. That's a Hormozi thing. He's big on guarantees. Like, when I was creating my offer, listening to Hormozi, I was like. He was. I put a guarantee and I was. How to do it on clothing. I was like, I'll back it, bro. And it's just you. We just wait to see if the. If the refunds outweigh, if the money makes sense, you know, I mean, if the refunds start skyrocketing. But if you're making more money because of the guarantee and even if your refunds are a bit higher, you're good. My refunds are nothing, bro. So say. I'll say it standing like that. The best in your wardrobe.
Paul Cohalan: We'll get back in it.
Joel Pond: See you later. Yeah. 100.
Paul Cohalan: And genuinely, like, when I put it on, I'm like, this is. Look, I haven't got another shirt.
Joel Pond: I don't have. I don't have a guarantee on the tight shirts. Just because that's like, that's. That's the first tight shirt we dropped.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah. It's wicked. Yeah, yeah. Favorite. Have you done any more?
Joel Pond: Nah, not tight ones. Nah, cuz I haven't marketed them, bro. I haven't sold many. I haven't sold all them.
Paul Cohalan: Haven't you?
Joel Pond: No, cuz I didn't market them.
Paul Cohalan: Have you got another color of them? I think I look for another color. You only got the black?
Joel Pond: No, I only got the black, bro. I think you need to try extra small, bro, to be honest.
Paul Cohalan: Of them.
Joel Pond: Of. Yeah, yeah. The oversized. Yeah, Cuz it'll be the same. It'll be about the same length. And the sleeves won't. The sleeves will probably sit here or something like. Should have brought one, bro. I should have brought one. I should boy you something. Yeah. Then when you come down, six months speaking about this. Oh, bro, he's a g. He's a G. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So I bought 10 bags of these the other day to try them out. Yeah. His clothes. That's what I was going to say. That's why I grabbed it. So I bought. And it's not me. I bought the pink shirt. A small. Like what you're saying. It's wicked. I love it.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: I love it for running, whatever. Right?
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: But I bought the, the baggy jacket, like zip up hoodie.
Joel Pond: Right, the hoodie. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: I can't wear them. They're just not me. I'd rather wear a armor under armour.
Joel Pond: Oh yeah, everyone's got different stuff.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: But I bought it.
Paul Cohalan: I'm like, I bought the pink one. I'm like, I'm gonna try this out. I'm wear it. Yeah, but they're like cuff there and then baggy and just weird fitting to me.
Joel Pond: Yeah, there's a lot goes into it, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Like, but they're the most popular things at the moment, like oversized tees, the jackets, the. And this guy here, mate, he's. He's. He's a weapon.
Joel Pond: He's a weapon, bro.
Paul Cohalan: He's unreal.
Joel Pond: He's nailed it, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: I'd love to get him on the podcast one day actually.
Joel Pond: Oh yeah. Adam Sullivan. Yeah. Tag him. Get him in here, bro. Yeah. Hard man to reach, bro. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So I'm not chasing and them kind of guys at the moment. I'm like, I want to get more. Six months under the belt, 12 months with the podcast.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Because it's more about the masses and the people we're all around the circles, really.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah. You've got levels, bro. You just got to keep working, work your way up.
Paul Cohalan: Like. Well, I stopped for two months and then I'm like, when I start again, when I move office and start again, I'm going to do 52 weeks. Non negotiable. And I've done 10 already.
Joel Pond: Oh yeah?
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. So imagine 52 weeks, one a week.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Like, and different guests every time.
Joel Pond: Like, what's your game plan with that?
Paul Cohalan: Or is that like roadblocks, risk and resilience. Right. It's about your journey, which I get to the end of every podcast, man. And it's me chills. It's wicked.
Joel Pond: Oh really?
Paul Cohalan: And then, and then the messages I get or the guest gets is a wicked podcast and it'll be only his community or his people that you know or hers. And my people are ranging on thanks for sharing that. Like, I end up talking more about less about boxing or business or whatever, more about Family and upbringing. We talk heaps about leaving Jackson. Action Jackson was on. He spoke. He got a call by a mate and what he said helped him. Yeah. You know, he's down your hood.
Joel Pond: I only met him, I met him a couple months ago. Shout outs. Shout outs man.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, he's a legend. Yeah, he ran me yesterday, actually. I, I seen him Sunday at the supercar. Sunday with the Motormore boys. So I'd love to get them on. Yeah, I'd love to get Clark and that on that, like. They've got a wicked journey with all the supercars and the racetrack.
Joel Pond: I don't know who they are, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, they're doing a wicked, like, it's just good. The everyday person, the. They're putting their balls on the line with. Yeah. You know. Yeah.
Joel Pond: Or professional athlete, bro. That's the hardest thing out there. Pro athlete, the hardest career anything out there.
Paul Cohalan: I reckon I'll probably get a couple of footy plays on, like.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: But I, I what I see with athletes and that the hardest is after. Do they get educated? It's the same in the defense. You get out and like that. It's not good getting out. And I think like AFL and all, it's the same. Some have done really well. But yeah, a lot don't know what to do.
Joel Pond: I think that's individual, bro. But yeah, a lot of them don't do. They've put their life into something and now they don't know. But if you were smart during your career, I'm sure you'd work out.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: If you're smart from square one. If you're not good with money, talk to someone that is good with money and sort your shit out if you're paying. If you're a professional athlete getting a good income, it's your bread and butter, mate. Don't like.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: And you. Yeah, just have a bit of thought, like. Yeah, that's me. I never had any forward thinking when I was younger at all. I wouldn't have said this 10 years ago. I don't have.
Paul Cohalan: I reckon, I reckon the associations have probably shift them now, like the AFL or, you know, whatever. I reckon there's probably a lot of education in the background these days than there was 10 years ago. 20 Years ago.
Joel Pond: Everything's online, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, it is.
Joel Pond: But I've got no business. I've come out of jail. Apprentice boilermaker. No offense. Boilermakers. It's not rocket science, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: No business experience. Well, I'm about to almost. I'm literally gonna, I'm gonna hit It. Today or tomorrow. This isn't going to come out today, tomorrow, But I'm going to hit a mill this year. Sales. It's. It's just me, bro. My missus edits videos, post on socials. I got a young dude, packs my orders, bro, that's it. I do everything. So that's my. That's marketing, emails, photography.
Paul Cohalan: And when you say a meal this year, everything.
Joel Pond: You mean from soon?
Paul Cohalan: All this? Calendar year? Oh, no.
Joel Pond: Calendar year. Yeah, calendar year. Not from June. That'd be sick. That'll. That'll happen soon. That'll happen, yeah. 100.
Paul Cohalan: Another will.
Joel Pond: 100. But no, that's from January this year. January this year, yeah. That's a fit. Like, it's a fair bit of volume, man. And I packed all the. I only just got the packer recently, too, like, because I was packing. I've packed all the orders myself. Yeah, I've done everything myself. Yeah. The only thing I had, I had to ad agency for one and a half months, two months, and an email agency for a month, bro. I got rid of them, like, three months ago because it's just me, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Are you gonna grow more?
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No offense. They weren't doing sick, man. Thanks, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Books. That's Dave Clare's a mate of mine. He's actually done my first podcast. Yeah, he's the first guest. Just about leadership culture. When you grow in a business from whatever level. I'm actually redoing his program now. Eight years later.
Joel Pond: Yeah, Yeah, I definitely. Yeah. Because I've never done, like. Yeah, obviously growing a business. Like, bro, one second. I'm gonna have more employees and all this stuff. I'm gonna have to learn all this.
Paul Cohalan: Bro, you've got to let go of the letter rung, man, so you can grow.
Joel Pond: Let go of the what?
Paul Cohalan: Ladder rung and let someone else climb up. You've got to delegate. You've got to get. You got to get out. You can't. Yeah, tradies are the worst for it. They go work 100 hours a week. They think they build a big business, but the business is them, so there's no value in it.
Joel Pond: Yeah, I've got. Yeah, I got a two trading shot next to me. Hey there. Yeah, the scaling. They're the same thing, like, because, yeah, they got to find people. And I said to them the other day, I was like, bro, I said, I'm glad I'm doing my thing. I don't need to find, like, trained professionals to go to scale my business. I just buy more product Bro, and run more ads. I get. I get a young dude pack orders, bro. Shout out to Leo.
Paul Cohalan: So how many more people do you reckon? Like, what's the next step to get to 1.5 in a year or in 12 months?
Joel Pond: Just keep buying more product and keep spending more money on ads, bro. That's. That's the game plan. That's what I've been doing. So, yeah, my, like, yeah, I got rid of my ad agency, run there for a couple months.
Paul Cohalan: But you're doing it yourself.
Joel Pond: Yeah, no, no offense to them. That was good.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: Doing everything myself. But AI, AI off its head, bro. Me and AI, like, what are you using? Claude. Claude, bro. Just Claude, man. You probably use any of them, but.
Paul Cohalan: Oh, Claude's weapon.
Joel Pond: Right? That's what I mean. I think, like, think, think about. So, yeah, million in sales. Think about everything that's gone into that. The photography, the wet, the website. Everything's. I've done everything. Me and a. I've done everything. Whole business. Every week we make them. This is branded emails. Every week scheduled, going out, all the back end, Shopify, all the products, created all the photography, like, everything, bro. My AI is doing tens of thousands of dollars of work a month, bro. Tens of thousands, bro, period. I would need customers because even customer support. Think about how many tickets are with all that. I would need some. I'm doing. I'm customer support, bro. I'm the replacement by my. All right, so my AI is the rep, right? And you might think, oh, AI is. But I've. I'm no joke, have emails, people emailing. They were talking to my bot, my email bot, because I've trained it on me on how I would handle customer service. And he, and he has said, you should train other clothing brands on customer service. And I happened to catch, I happened to see when I check my emails and I emailed him as a heart, bro. That's hilarious. Because you've been talking to my bot, bro. You've been talking to AI and he said how good it was. You just try. You just train it, bro. You set protocols, train it. And I've done all this myself, set up all this stuff. I need to make money selling the AI knowledge, bro, because a lot of businesses, yeah, I could save tens of thousands of dollars a month, bro.
Paul Cohalan: That's wicked, man. And you'll make killing off that.
Joel Pond: Yeah, and it's not rocket science, bro. I taught myself. I literally six months ago, picked up Claude and just, just got it. Connected everything, suss it out, figured out, figured out the hard way, bro. Yes, but it's a game changer. It's the barrier to entry to running a business is it's zero, bro. If you're like, if someone's more creative, like if you're creative and you didn't, didn't want to do all this business stuff, like AI, like does everything, bro, you have to know what you're doing. You can't just direct, you know, you can't be blind leading the blind. But yeah, it's nuts, bro. That's what I mean. I got rid of my ad. They were running my ads for me and I was like, no, if you're not doing better than I would be doing, I'm paying you four grand a month to do that as a management. And the only, the only reason I took them on is because I used to have to have to upload all the ads myself and I was so sick of it. Oh, bro, it just takes time, like hours uploading answers. Get an agency, someone else do it. But then AI does it, bro. I just talk, I talk to my AI, suss out what ads we want to make. We go film them, I give them to him, he uploads them, adds everything, bro, change every morning we check it's head. It's like having a. Yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So do you have an agent in Cowork?
Joel Pond: Nah, just Claude.
Paul Cohalan: Just not Claude. Cowork Claude.
Joel Pond: It's Claude Code. So.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, in the code one. Yeah, yeah, three pillars.
Joel Pond: Yeah, the three pillars, yeah. I'm only in code, bro. Really, because it's.
Paul Cohalan: I'm building five agents right now. We have. But I've got someone building them for me. For insurance?
Joel Pond: Yeah. What do you mean by, what do they, what do they mean by build an agent?
Paul Cohalan: I'm building them so I've got a chief insurance officer. So you have their own email, like a person and everything? Yeah, So I won't go in and prompt it. Yeah, they'll be agentic and it's got a process to do. Right. I've been doing an AI for about two years. We ChatGPT, then we've rolled over to Claude.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And now I've. I downloaded ChatGPT again the other day because it's come back up for different stuff depending and it's all emerging. Right.
Joel Pond: So yeah, we're all working, it's gonna change. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: But I've got the whole business. Business nationally and in the remote team on Claude.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: In a corporate subscription.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And so I'm doing a chief insurance officer which is the manager, so he'll Send reports every morning. There'll be a new business for new business. Insurance renewals, claims and ad hoc. So there'll be five agents.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And then I'll give them to each branch around Australia because I've got 10 in the Philippines. Right. So they do 80% of each of them processes. I mentioned new business renewals.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So the AI agent is going to come in, at least do 50. So then my Philippine team, I'll upscale, train them. There'll be better insurance assistance.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And then my broker will do 10.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: They'll be the risk advisor and client engagement.
Joel Pond: Yeah. So.
Paul Cohalan: And then I can scale like. Yeah. And I'm. I'm building connect partners. Not, not my brokerage connect partners and I'm building divisions.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Wherever they are with a business partner, find a broker, go. You want your own business here?
Joel Pond: How do you, how do you scare that bro? I heard someone do it. I follow Instagram. He's just started some insurance thing in the us. He just had to go through an exam or something to pass it. Yeah, he goes, he reckons lucrative abs. Like he just jumped the guy. He's just kind of quickly went and gone and done the exam. So it must be lucrative. I don't know how it works but you need a big bank hole to begin with or. No, not really. You must.
Paul Cohalan: Well, I need to live because it's a bit of paper, right.
Joel Pond: To live. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And you get paid like end of the month, you know, depending when it renews. The hardest bit is to start because you've got no clients and you'll get one client.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: It'll be like 30th of this month. He doesn't pay again until the end of the year.
Joel Pond: But you just get paid money from people signing up a commission. Is that how.
Paul Cohalan: No, no. I own the brokerage so I place the policies. So if I place a 10 grand policy, I might get 10 or 15% off it. But that's in simple terms. There's a bit more to it. But say I place a motor fleet or a liability or a workers comp for 10 grand, I might get 5% off a 10. 15, Like 1500 bucks. But if I place 100 grand policy, I might get 10 grand of it.
Joel Pond: Oh yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Or I might. I've got million dollar policies there.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah. How do you scale that if you're not doing ads? How do you scale that way? Just word of mouth and people know.
Paul Cohalan: And I do a lot of SEO and I'm just redoing all the websites again. I only done three years ago but now because.
Joel Pond: Is that Google Ads but or not or.
Paul Cohalan: No, just SEO like organic change in.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: I'm going to do paid but I'm resetting the brand and everything and all the sites. I've got like six insurance brands.
Joel Pond: Oh yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Self insured, self storage Insurance, Australia Tradies. I just launched All Trucks Insurance. I've got Connect Business Insurance, my main corporate one.
Joel Pond: Are you sure? You've been listening to Hormozi bro. He'll be like oh, that's all one, one thing for eight years. Yeah. Yeah. That's heaps, Brad. Juggling heaps. One business is hard enough.
Paul Cohalan: Well they're all under the same brokerage. Yeah. But when you go buy something, what do you want? You want the niche, you want the brand, you want to go buy clothing, you want the good brand, you want to go buy rugs, you want to buy watches, you go to the watch shop. Yeah.
Joel Pond: Different customers.
Paul Cohalan: I own Combat Sports Insurance as well. Like you would have probably seen it around. It's been, I've had it for 10 years. Yeah. So like we do all the promotions, the gyms and we're probably, we'll be leading that in six months.
Joel Pond: Yeah. Sick. That's cool man.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. So I've had a big bushfire.
Joel Pond: I've.
Paul Cohalan: I've learned my strength, become my weakness. My strength was relationships and bringing in business every year. 50, 100 Every year. Eight years.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: But then when I divorced I was, I wasn't in the business, in the office and in it, I was at it. I was emotionally roller coaster. Right.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: I lost probably 30, 40 of the business. But I'm glad. It taught me a lot. It taught me heaps.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And now I'm like ready to rock and roll.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. And I built technology. I built a CRM on Microsoft three and a half years ago. So my whole team used that because there was nothing in the industry. It was all shit.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: All old school.
Joel Pond: So do you sell that or you just use it internally?
Paul Cohalan: Just about there. I got a new dev person to go there but I've used it for three years, 15 users. So it works, say document management, everything like the new business renewals, all the workflows, there's nothing out there in insurance. It's crazy. It's so old school, mate. People still printing PDFs off and ticking it off on a bit of paper. And I've come in from like BHP Incorporate and I'm like, why the we printing documents out? To see what renewals are every month. It's only 10 years ago.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And I worked on tech for years, man, and now I nailed something and now I can't wait to do the next version of it. Yeah, because it's business and processes, right? Efficiency, less touch, that's what you need. And delegation. When you, when you get people in the Philippines, I've got 10 there now. It taught me you gotta, you gotta explain better. You can't just hire someone, get them in the office and you self teach.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: When they're over there, they cookie cut. They're not really initiative, but they do the repeat job in the Philippines. They're brilliant workers.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And get them shirts, get them laptops. I embed them in the business, not just admin.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: It's cool.
Joel Pond: Yeah. Sick.
Paul Cohalan: So if you grow, you'd probably get. Have you ever got remote people? You haven't. Have you tried?
Joel Pond: I've tried like a remote video editor around the remote.
Paul Cohalan: It's hard work.
Joel Pond: Designer Fiverr. I've got a couple, a couple good things on there. But like I honestly. Yeah, that's what I mean, I haven't. I've been doing everything, man. Like, it's like get scaling. That's not gonna be possible. But I don't even pay, I don't even hire photographers or nothing.
Paul Cohalan: I was about to say models. You hear a glass ceiling.
Joel Pond: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It's just, it's just volume of content.
Paul Cohalan: And you don't want to end up hating the business. You don't want to burn yourself. And everyone goes, like, I can work hard. There's not many people that work me. But you do get to a point and don't let it get to there before you burn out and you're unhappy with it.
Joel Pond: Yeah, I've been putting in hours, bro. I was, I was doing like when you started. I was doing 90 hours when I was FIFO. I'm doing more than that, bro. I'm at my warehouse all hours, live and breather, bro. But I burnt out.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: Already sometimes. Yeah. 100 Sometimes.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: I booked a couple.
Paul Cohalan: You've only been going 21 months as well.
Joel Pond: Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And yeah, I'm not even. Yeah, I'm not. Yeah. People like people around me, bro. Best advice, trying to help me, like, oh, you balance.
Paul Cohalan: You eat more. And they haven't done it, bro.
Joel Pond: People think. No, people think balance is on a daily time equation. It's like, bro, I'll hack this for 10 years. I'll see no one for 10 years and come out of A killer.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: And then, and then I'll have my, the benefits, bro. Then I'll have overbalance the other way, bro.
Paul Cohalan: It's whatever suits you as well. I can tell you whatever. But it's whatever suits you. And if you're winning, you're winning. No one can tell you a thing.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And it's usually the people that haven't given it a shot, bro.
Joel Pond: It's the hardest. You, bro, you've got all these good, good hearted, good intentioned people around you love you, they want the best for you. They're giving you their best advice. Advice, bro. They physically have not done what you're trying to do. So your advice is from your perspective. It's like, it's honestly, it's not helpful, bro. Like, thank you.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, thank you.
Joel Pond: No, you need to just, you need to listen to people who have done what you've done. Let me fail.
Paul Cohalan: Let me. But you've got to go hard to learn.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: But if you're listening to everyone, they're like, oh, don't do that. You gotta work.
Joel Pond: So even with. It happens with everything. Even like design, even some things, I'll be like, design something and like the missus doesn't like it or I don't know, it's just like you need to. Or you ask someone, but you need to just say, bro, like the market say, what's the market say? Yeah, but that's funny. But market. I made a shirt. Yeah. A year ago and it didn't do well. Like it sold so slowly. Took over six months to sell us. And then I remade it v2 version because I like it. Same thing, bro. From the. We did the. Our best drop ever the other month and the slowest selling piece by far with that remake. I make stuff all the time and I make emails and I'm saying, yo, this is my favorite bit. I make videos and it's my favorite piece and it's the worst seller from the shop.
Paul Cohalan: Right?
Joel Pond: It's funny. Yeah, it is what it is, bro. Like, because a lot of. I dropped, I dropped white shorts this winter because I wanted a pair of white shorts, bro. Like I make a lot of dumb decisions just because I want stuff that's, that's part of the, you could say a bit of part of passion for the business. You know what I mean? It's like, but I want something, I'm making it. I could have just went and bought a pair of white shorts one day.
Paul Cohalan: You might do it and you'll think it won't sell. You do it for yourself. And up it fucks.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah, exactly. It's.
Paul Cohalan: Oh.
Joel Pond: As we're getting. It's just. It's just the early stages are hard because I ordered in the beginning, like a hundred different. 100 Of each shirts, 100 of each shorts. Yep. Right. The shirt sold real fast. So then I'm like, I'm not doing any shorts for a while with minimal shorts. And now I've got people like, you need to make more shorts. Probably more shorts. So it's like the bigger I get, I can, like, it'll get so much better for designing because I would. I wear matching fits, bro. I'd wear matching. Everything fits, bro. Like, killer. I don't have enough money to bring out all the products you want to bring out. Right. If I would do that. But as I get bigger, I can make, say, a thousand shirts and 100 shorts and not be like, oh, I'm not be like, oh, gonna sell. I'd be like, they're gonna sell, bro. It's wasteful. So as your MOQ. As your MOQ. Yeah, yeah. It gets cheaper. Gets cheaper. That's the other thing. The more. Yeah. The most I've ordered of a shirt, of one shirt is like, well, I haven't even got to selling that yet, but that's 500. Usually I order that 100, 200. Try and get through all.
Paul Cohalan: What. What extra percentage are you going to get off it?
Joel Pond: Not sure. I. Not really. Not sure at all.
Paul Cohalan: Off the 500?
Joel Pond: No, not sure. Oh, off the 500. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Compared to 100 or 200?
Joel Pond: Not the top of my head, bro. It'd be a couple bucks, A few bucks, maybe. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Another 5% or something.
Joel Pond: Yeah. Adds up. Yeah. Because that was a big. I've gone through big thing. Yeah. My prices were so expensive for these products, man. Like, I was. The business was not doing good at the start, like when I started it, because the margin wasn't there. Like coaching course saying you need product needs to be more expensive or cheaper. Get it for cheaper. So just spent ages tweaking that to make it work. Make it AOV so much to, like, the business metrics and E commerce. E Commerce.
Paul Cohalan: What's your AOV?
Joel Pond: About 200 bucks.
Paul Cohalan: No, what is AOV?
Joel Pond: Oh, average order value, you're talking. Yeah. Average order value, bro. So you either make a customer. Yeah. Worth more, like.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: If they give you more money. The first purchase. That's the average order value.
Paul Cohalan: Yep. How many orders you get a week?
Joel Pond: Varies, bro. Varies. What's this like, roughly?
Paul Cohalan: Is it 10. Is it 100?
Joel Pond: No, this year we've done 7. No, 8. Almost 8, 000. So what's a week? Like 30, 30 a day? Some 30, 40 a day sometimes.
Paul Cohalan: That's wicked, man.
Joel Pond: But at the moment, because I'm spending this month, we've already done, I don't know, we've averaged like six grand a day this month. But spending fair bit on ads, spending like two grand a day. But it's. Yeah, just. That's a lot by a lot of these big brands, you find out like, like massive corporations, they lose money for years on the front end. They just know. They know their ltv the lifetime value of that customer. They know they'll lose money to get that customer. But they know after 10 years that customer's worth more.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Loss leader. Yeah.
Joel Pond: Big bankroll. Send it. Right. That's kind of what I've. I didn't have a big bankroll, but some semi. What I've done, you have to do that. You have to go, I'm scaling. It's not really about profit. It's about getting customers in as fast as you can, getting growing. It's not about. It's not about taking money home. That's what I mean. I haven't. I've only just paid myself for the first week after 20 months or something. Only because I have to. Because I'm getting, getting a person getting a home loan in my personal name. So I got to pay me to get the loan.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, so you got some history.
Joel Pond: Otherwise I wouldn't be even paying me a dollar. Yeah, it's not short term. Yeah, don't. If you're trying to get. I mean, some people can. If you're trying to get money quickly, don't start a clothing brand, bro. You're not. I haven't paid me a dollar, bro. Like you think. You see, some people could do it organically and. Yeah, not me, but slow process, man. So, yeah, I say slow. It's been 20 months. Like I'm doing pretty good, I think.
Paul Cohalan: Oh, man. On the back, what with your ads, you're spending two grand instead of day, right?
Joel Pond: Yeah, right now, two and a half.
Paul Cohalan: So how do you get that down?
Joel Pond: How do you get it down?
Paul Cohalan: Will it get better? Because the brand will get known more,.
Joel Pond: Maybe the ad spend. No, you're trying, you're trying to spend more as much as you can. You work out your break even point. You work out, how much money can I spend and make no money? How much money can I spend and lose no money.
Paul Cohalan: So you Just get that back.
Joel Pond: Wiring customers, that's the game. Acquiring customers. Because my return, as I said, some, some dude's done 38 orders. But my return customer rate is killer. Like my product. You make a good product, they come back. Yeah, it will come back, bro. Make your product good, they'll come back. So now you just, you've got a good product. I just give me as many customers as I can get. I know they're going to come back, bro. At least Most of them, 40%, 50% are going to come back. Whatever. And one day that's what right now I'm going to have. No, I know I'm just going to have no money. Especially as you're scaling, I'm going to see no money for years and then one day there'll just be money in the account. That's how it's going to look because you got to keep putting more money back in and back in and back.
Paul Cohalan: In and so go back six months. How much we put in a day on ads? A grand.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Now you're doing two, 1500.
Joel Pond: A grand. Depends. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So you're next. You're going to try and put an extra 500 when it makes sense.
Joel Pond: You just. So I've got stocks, not an issue at the moment.
Paul Cohalan: So it's not an issue. I was going to ask that.
Joel Pond: So it was, it has been an issue because obviously I didn't know what was best sellers. Now I'm kind of not overstocked in best sellers but kind of I've got, I've got to think I've got Black Friday coming up and like a lot of businesses make no money all year and just quarter four, just the end of the year, Black Friday, they make a lot of money. So I've just put in an automark. My biggest order, let's say my Last shipment was 2,000, 3,000 units. This Black Friday one's like six and a half, 7,000. Double, triple, double, triple, bro. Yeah, big punt on, big punt on.
Paul Cohalan: That because you'll kill it, man.
Joel Pond: Black Friday frenzy. But it's thing you just make ads.
Paul Cohalan: So how much discount were you do on Black Friday?
Joel Pond: I'm doing buy two. I buy two, get one free buy to get one free. That's what I've decided to do, bro. And buy two, get one free and free shipping. So you get the shirt's 100 shirt. So you're getting 100 shirt for free and free shipping. 200 Bucks.
Paul Cohalan: Yep.
Joel Pond: And then we'll run that for. Just run that for as long as that's weird.
Paul Cohalan: Even if you made no money, yet you acquiring customers Black Friday.
Joel Pond: But here's the thing. The customers you get in quarter four, the customers you get during sales aren't as valuable customers, obviously, because they love the custom. The customers you get who pay full price throughout the year, they're the ones, bro. That's why it's a big thing in E commerce. A lot of brands, you either got to go in my premium brand. Who I just, I do sales twice a year. Twice a year maximum.
Paul Cohalan: You don't want to devalue your brand.
Joel Pond: You train your customers to buy on sale. But it works. It's a business model. Like 100 is a business model.
Paul Cohalan: Like I know the way I think I like spending good money on clothes or on anything.
Joel Pond: Well, I used to shop sales, man. I used to shop sales, dude. Like, yeah, different customers, man. There's nothing wrong with any of them. And that's hard.
Paul Cohalan: I like, I like buying quality. Like yes. Yeah.
Joel Pond: So some people don't give two what they wear, bro. I like wearing nice cleats. It's bro, it's. You're walking around, you're feeling. It's on your skin. It's on your skin, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, look good.
Joel Pond: Feel tell you look feel good.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: Everything, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: 100. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: That's bigger than people give it credit for. Look good, feel good. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Even like even, even when I wasn't in the office much and you start being a bit casual, right? Because I can't. Yeah, but I had to kick my ass on my. And even this is pretty casual, right? Like I started wearing my collared connect shirt and get back into it, Paul. And you get back into it and then you're back in the business.
Joel Pond: You know, I'll go out to events in sweatpants and a hoodie, but they're brand new hoodie. They look good.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.
Joel Pond: But, yeah, but yeah, I don't put on jeans, boots.
Paul Cohalan: But you're a different brand. I'm a shoes, bro.
Joel Pond: No, but the, the bro, I'm wearing track pants. But they look sick because they look good. Look like your own.
Paul Cohalan: That's wicked. So you do pants, you do shirts,.
Joel Pond: Shorts, caps, socks, hoodies. Lots of killer hoodies, man. You see the inside of the hoodies, man? Crazy. Yeah, that's it so far.
Paul Cohalan: Let's have a look. I want to have a look.
Joel Pond: All right. Inside this hoodie over here.
Paul Cohalan: Oh yeah.
Joel Pond: Inside of this, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Oh, look at that. Yeah, that's wicked.
Joel Pond: Yeah, it's sick.
Paul Cohalan: So what size is that?
Joel Pond: Large, That's a large. I'm guessing if you didn't like the evidence thing, you're not gonna like that. But it's probably a similar kind of oversized thing.
Paul Cohalan: But do you know what? This gets better than. I hate to say it, like for me.
Joel Pond: Yeah, but if I had that's, that's big. But that's big on you.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, but if I had a smaller.
Joel Pond: Yeah, smaller.
Paul Cohalan: It's just they're really like cuffed and puffy and weird.
Joel Pond: Yeah, but I kind of like the coffee.
Paul Cohalan: That's why I bought this shirt.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oversized. Yeah, yeah, but different, different, different flows. So I've. Because I, I used to always wear baggy when I was younger and then I got out of jail and I was wearing tight stuff for ages because I put muscle on. I look good.
Paul Cohalan: Oh yeah.
Joel Pond: So I went to tight and then I'm just gradually. Sometimes I wait, I was still. I don't even wear oversized tees most time, bro. I wear those, I wear those tanks.
Paul Cohalan: Do you?
Joel Pond: I wear the beaters. I wear a beater and a zip up hood like that. That's it 24 7.
Paul Cohalan: All right, I'm gonna go to your website. We're gonna go to his website now.
Joel Pond: Website, yeah, jump on there. Have a squiz, have a squeeze man. Yeah, but that website's made by me and Claude. That's like full custom.
Paul Cohalan: Me just talking best selling oversized 10 the wardrobe. Guaranteed.
Joel Pond: Yeah, guaranteed.
Paul Cohalan: So have you got everything in stock again?
Joel Pond: Nah, I can't. There's 90 products sold out. I can't. You can't Because I'm trying to make new products every month and restock the best products matters like that's what I mean. I had to save 18 months of FIFO wage and sink it all into club as I said, because it's a big. It was four you buying something and selling it.
Paul Cohalan: So you needed the capital.
Joel Pond: Big cash flow restraint, bro. Yes, but I've got, I've just worked out better terms which are happening now and better prices, better shipping, it's just grown one thing.
Paul Cohalan: Well, you just learn along the way, don't you? Yeah, it's not meant to be perfect.
Joel Pond: Yeah, I'll pick it up, bro, if I can. Pick it up. Anyone pick it up if you want. If you're out there wanting to start a business, hate your job or something, just give it a punt, bro. When I quit my FIFO job, so many people like, oh, what are you going to do if it. What are you going to do if it doesn't work. It's like, bro, I'll see you back here in six months, bro. What do you mean? That's the worst case?
Paul Cohalan: Fail, pivot, try something else.
Joel Pond: That's the good thing about. That's the good thing about jail as well, because, like, that's the worst case scenario, bro. And I cruise there. So I was like. I was happy there. I had good times there, bro. I got nothing but good memories from the worst place I've been, bro.
Paul Cohalan: So that's a wicked attitude, though.
Joel Pond: Yeah. This is easy, bro. We people in the west, bro, get too easy. We're too easy, bro, mate. Too easy.
Paul Cohalan: From Uber drivers to trade. He used to FIFO workers. Like, I was talking to Quinny the other day, he's like, mate, FIFO workers, hard work, they just. They just want everything and they've got. You got two. Got it too good.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: FIFO workers.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: It's.
Paul Cohalan: No, I don't want that. Yeah.
Joel Pond: Because the environment. The environment, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Up there, everyone competing and.
Joel Pond: Well, no, everyone's just like, it's. I mean, I was up there 18 months, bro. If I have a killer attitude, bro. So I'm like this 24 7. But I was. I was internally going, this, but I'm not staying here forever.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: That's why I started the business, because I was like.
Paul Cohalan: But you also got a bit of ambition.
Joel Pond: I was. I was 502 and one. So I was away two weeks at a time home one. And you're doing one week a day is one week, week of nights. And you fly home after your last night of work, you haven't slept. You're on the fly home, bro. Yeah. So some people are cooked for a couple days. I'm like, a bit blase. The first day you come back because you haven't slept. But then I was like, this, bro, this is not. And it's not healthy. It's no night shift. Two in ones. FIFO minor. I was getting sick fairly frequently.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: I haven't been sick in 20 months, bro. Not a cold. Not a cold, bro. 21, Like, since not out of FIFO, like, just. I might be. It's not good with the iron ore, like the metals, metal dust, whatever. And the night shift as well. Can't be good for you, bro. That's just not good for every cell in your body. Does not want to be at night shift, like. Yeah. It runs on circadian rhythm, bro. So.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, that's right. Do you do. Do you do a lot around the sleep and the Breath work and all that stuff?
Joel Pond: None, bro.
Paul Cohalan: I. I do. I should. I'm trying to dial in at the moment.
Joel Pond: Yeah. What sort of. What sort of breath work? Like, what's the.
Paul Cohalan: Well, go back about six months, I was doing just like, I got. I got an app, actually, meditation app. And it's slightly breath work in that. But then I just started doing yoga.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Last Sunday. A beginner's course, straight from beginning. I've done it over the years. Heaps.
Joel Pond: Yeah, I did in jail. Yeah. Yeah. No improvements for me. But I didn't stick at it and put into it.
Paul Cohalan: I'm going to go back to a beginners. I met this chick actually and she trained, trains, there she goes, come and do our beginners course. And it's like spiritual breath work.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Because what I learned going to boxing and going doing weights in the gym, I wasn't. What do you say when you're racing? Bracing my core. So my lower back's. I've done it 12 months ago and I'd just done it the other week and I'm like. And then I was talking to this chick and she's like, come and do yoga. Because it's the breath work that you brace when you do moves, sit ups or whatever.
Joel Pond: I might look back into it. I'm the same as you, bro. Not training weights the whole time, never doing it properly. It's called it. And like anterior pelvic perfectly tilted.
Paul Cohalan: Like it's.
Joel Pond: Your core's not engaged. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So, mate, bang on. Yeah, I was. I stopped. I had PT trainer twice a week, three times a week.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And I was doing deadlifts or squats or whatever with weights. Yeah. And I worked out in the end, a chick physio showed me I wasn't bracing and I didn't have me back. Right.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Like all the pain goes to your lower back.
Joel Pond: Yeah, it really depends, bro, because you see a lot of people like ATG, these guys is low back ability. They do like. They do rounded back deadlifts essentially, bro. Like, there's a big. Like.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. But they're still strong in there. They're muscle. Yeah. I've got no core strength.
Joel Pond: They're doing that spinal. They're doing weighted spinal flexion, say deadlift, usually keeping your back stiff. Yeah. They're intentionally curling every spine under load. Like they're strong. They're strong everywhere. That's their mentality. Strong everywhere. But so have you seen improvements with your mobility, like.
Paul Cohalan: Oh, I've only really like the last month. So when we do because why I worked it out finally is we're doing sit ups.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And then leg raises. And that even affected me. Two days later, I'm low back.
Joel Pond: Yeah. Cause you're not using your abs. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. You're not using the abs. And then who picked up my physio? I went back to Sean and he goes, man, what'd you do recently? Because you had this 12 months ago when you done weights.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And I said, man, I was doing sit ups and leg raises. He goes, boom. Lay down. And I. And I was not bracing.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Again.
Joel Pond: Yeah, you gotta flatten that.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: You're doing abs.
Paul Cohalan: So every time they do it now, I go on the floor, just put me hands there. Yeah. I'm intentional. And I just slowly do each leg like this. He goes, you don't need to do both. You don't need to do all the. Just do that for the next few months. Yeah. Get your core.
Joel Pond: Tell me how you go, bro. Because I'm. I'm trying to. Like, I always, like, I need to work on my mobility, but by the time you go, I might need to work my mobility. You need to work on boxing and you can't do everything, bro. You can't do everything.
Paul Cohalan: So I used to overlay. Now I'm just dropping. Like, I've been boxing for four months now. I'm just doing that. I do want to go back and do weights again for probably two days a week.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And I. I run once a week, Twice a week.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And I want to do the yoga. And then once I've done the yoga, I want to tie in, breath, work.
Joel Pond: Are you doing double sessions then, or single sessions a day? You're just doing one session.
Paul Cohalan: I'll run.
Joel Pond: That was more than seven sessions. I think, like, I'll run.
Paul Cohalan: No, I'll run after.
Joel Pond: Run after. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Like, I'll run the Arbo with Quinny or mate up the coast. Yeah.
Joel Pond: That's what I mean. You can only. You only get. If you're only trying once. If you're trying once a day, you only got seven sessions. How can you pick? Like, it's very hard to.
Paul Cohalan: So I've been doing three, four days of boxing.
Joel Pond: Yeah, it's good.
Paul Cohalan: And then I've got to work out the weights. That's why I haven't. Usually I go all in, but I'm like, I'll just do it when I'm ready. I'll listen to my body, which I never listen to my body. But I do have. I have the last few months. Yeah. And If I'm in the morning, I won't go to boxing. If I need to sleep or I didn't get to sleep, I'll listen to my body and go. But not because I'm pulling out, because I love it, actually.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah? Yeah. It's funny, that's the only cardio I do is boxing, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Loving it, man. I leave there 7 o' clock and I am on fire like.
Joel Pond: You sparring?
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, no, no, just class classes. I'm actually going to do one on ones on Saturday soon.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Just to get better at footwork.
Joel Pond: Oh, but that's.
Paul Cohalan: Footwork's everything.
Joel Pond: Everything, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Like I, I didn't realize how much of a rigid old prick I am.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: You know like when he's like some.
Joel Pond: Of the freak boxes, bro. Done dancing. Dad's forced them to do dancing, bro. They've got the best.
Paul Cohalan: Makes sense though. Yeah.
Joel Pond: Yeah. Because I'm, I'm not, I'm not a freak boxer. But I was like. Yeah, I actually started, I'm basically southpaw now. I was like orthodox now. Yeah, way more. But that's, that was the footwork swapping over. So I spent a lot of time doing the footwork and now I'm literally more comfortable that, that way. And it's so much easier to move around. It's just getting footwork, bro. Actually spending, actually spending the rounds. Don't throw any punches, bro. Just work on your feet. Move around. Yeah, work on your feet, Move around. Pivot. Yeah. This boxing tech, there's so much into it, bro. Shout outs to any pro level boxer, bro. Comes off your head.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, My mate, over Easy, he's. He was his third podcast, he's a pro boxer. I grew up my hometown and then I've had Jackson on him, which is cool. And then I had Wes Capper on. I had a couple of guys that own gyms, which is cool.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And do you know Macca that owns Mandurah Combat Sports Academy? Gary Mandurah, Big Blue Joint?
Joel Pond: No, I know the one. Yeah, I've seen the one. Yeah. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: He's ex Navy. He's a close mate of mine as well.
Joel Pond: Oh yeah, he's cool.
Paul Cohalan: I'm gonna try, but I was trying to get him on the first one 25 episodes ago.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And now we've got you on.
Joel Pond: So lucky you.
Paul Cohalan: Lucky, lucky me. So last six years you boxed, you got out 2020.
Joel Pond: Yeah. I've not above. Have you been consistent or not consistently myself, yeah. But not strength like proper training, bro, but consistently like gym in Boxing, Gym and boxing. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: How many days do you box a week?
Joel Pond: At least twice or recently? At least once. But, yeah, it was at least twice, bro. I hit the bag for footwork, Shadow, whatever. I was boxing with my friend Louisa. Shout out Louisa. I was paying her for, like, lessons not long ago. She knows she was world champion. Yeah. Yeah. We'll change friend with Jackson. Yeah, She's a freak, bro. She started boxing 29 and then turned to world champion. She was free. Yeah. Started late as, bro, so I was good. Yeah. Seen her for a few lessons, bro. Like. Yeah. Heaps different. Yes, there's help different, bro, because when you're first, like, hitting pads in that, you're doing cool combos, blah, blah, all this stuff, and then when you get with someone, then it's way more, like, rangy and there's way more to it. You're not just sitting there doing.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. What I struggle with on the bag. I don't know, it's still. But it moves. Not that it moves, but just. It comes back to the footwork, the distance, reading it. Yeah, because you're not just hitting pads, bro.
Joel Pond: The thing with boxing, you've got. It's not like any. Any other sport. You've got a lot to think about. But boxing, there's so many more. Like, you know, I mean, you're in the bag, but are you thinking, oh, range, footwork or this, that, or head movement in my inside, outside, blah, blah. There's. There's so many things going on. And then when you start aspiring, I'd imagine fighting, someone's trying to give you brain damage while you're trying to do these calculations, why y' all should run a little blah, blah, blah. Hectic, bro. Box.
Paul Cohalan: There he goes. Get in the ring. The other day and we're doing it in the ring and moving around because you're normally standing still in your pad where you might move a bit. Yeah, you want to move this around the regulars. Look how much more energy you use.
Joel Pond: Yeah, that's. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And you're like.
Joel Pond: Yeah, that's hard there. That's. Yeah, that's part of it. Getting your legs in, bro. Getting your skipping in. So you're just. You're. You're just existing in that state. So even if you're tired dead, you're still. You still got your feet, you still got your legs to you. So he still moves around 100. Yeah. You'd want to hit the pads and get that one.
Paul Cohalan: Where do you train?
Joel Pond: Just at my. My warehouse, man. I got back in the warehouse. Or at my gym. I train it right at Riderwear. I've not been into a proper gym. Just sparring with the homie. Shout out. Ricky, we need to actually link up for another session. Yeah, we're boxing with Louisa, sparring a couple dudes as well. Yeah. But nothing like, I've not been consistently like, that's what I mean, my training. I've not hit any PBS for ages.
Paul Cohalan: Yep.
Joel Pond: Like, not much.
Paul Cohalan: But you've been going, that's.
Joel Pond: Boxing's definitely gotten better. Like footwork, just moving around. Fluidity, bro. There's. The more and more I get to boxing, the more is. It's relaxed. That's all it is, bro. You're like. You're punt. You're meant to be like this, bro. You're meant to twist your hips and then your arm comes out. Like, it's not one motion, it's your hips, bro. Your hips are doing something. Your arms just flicking out. Bang. Like there's. You're the more relaxed than that you get.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: And that's. That's how you maintain your energy as well. Because same thing, bro. I've seen like CrossFit athletes, the fittest people on the planet, and they go do boxing and they're one round and they're. Because they're not breathing, bro. Because they're intense boxers. Just relax, relax. Breather you're gonna get for your boxing, cuz you're gonna get hit. You know what I mean? You go swimming, you're gonna get wet, bro. Yeah. So you just accept it is what it is.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. You're gonna cop a couple.
Joel Pond: Hey, once you start sparring, man, it's fine. As I need a bit more. It's fun. It's fun, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Well, that's what the idea of sitting here and talking about your journey and things pop up and then you go away. I've had a couple people go, I've got to go do this. I've been thinking about it for years because they're sitting here on the podcast and they're like, I haven't thought about that for ages.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Gotta go do it. Hey, tell me about the warehouse. Did you lease it? Did you buy it?
Joel Pond: Yeah, at least it, bro. Lisa. Whereabouts in Falcon? So in Mandurah. What's that? 140 Square foot, nothing massive, nothing small. It's got a little office than that. Just good timing, bro. I was running, running, running out of home, like, oh, lounge room full, Bedroom full. I was gonna have to do it, bro. And it was. They're brand New units? None. There's none in Mandurah, bro. None, in fact. And these ones are brand new, those brand new ones getting made. And I was like, are they. Are they warehouses or what? And I was like scoping it all the time, like, who's there? Trying to get the number, like calling people, harassing the. Out of them, like, yo, is it ready? Is it ready? And eventually got. It's like, it's good, man. It's like 500 bucks a week. Brand new. Perfect, bro.
Paul Cohalan: How much a week?
Joel Pond: 500. So I don't know, I just didn't have the kit. Like, ideally I'd probably buy one, the next one, like lease this for a few years and then if I got enough, your cash flow, buy one. Because that's what people do, buy one and rent it themselves. And like that.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, 100.
Joel Pond: Yeah, I'll get there. But that's what I meant the cash flow for the cash flow for the clothing business off its head, bro. That's what I mean. My. I was at the start, I was having to pay 30 deposit. When you want to order and they make a sample, takes 28 days, 30 days to send it to you. Then you confirm it, they got to go send it off, takes another 35 days to make. Then they got a C, ship it over, which was taking like, like 80 days or something, bro. So I mean, the cash flow, you're tied up and you're paid 30. And then when they go to ship it, you pay the other 70. So that whole thing's paid off and then you haven't. You don't even see it for another two. You don't even see it for two months. And then you've got to start selling then you've got to start selling it. So very.
Paul Cohalan: And 4K intensive.
Joel Pond: So I got. Eventually I said, my man, this cash flow thing's said to my supplier, my sales guy, I've got Claude to make up a graph, say, hey, if you give me better payment, terms went through like Hormozi, like how to negotiate, like set a really unrealistic expectation of, oh.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, you just give me the middle.
Joel Pond: You give me the product for free. Basically, I'll pay for it later. And like give that like the highest expectations. Like, I'm not doing that. Then the middle ground was like, let me pay 30 deposit and then pay the other 70 after it's delivered. And that's the, that's what the deal we went to. So now I don't have to pay that 70 until I've at least seen it and then eventually I'll be like, let me sell it first.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: For some big brands, they get it all on tick. It'd be all on credit, bro. Yeah, yeah. Because they just go. They go, listen, man, the more you give me, the more money you make. Because I have the track record. It's just getting the proof of track record. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: It's all relationship and rapport.
Joel Pond: Relationship, yeah. I've only dealt with.
Paul Cohalan: But I haven't got to get strict.
Joel Pond: I've only dealt with the one sales guy at my supplier the whole time. We've got to kill a relationship. And that's good stock on WhatsApp. But I need to go over there and meet them, bro, because, like, where are they trying to. Yeah, China, bro. Yeah. After it was either China or Portugal.
Paul Cohalan: China's the beast, man. Yeah.
Joel Pond: The best, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: Superpower.
Paul Cohalan: It's what you want to pay. Like you said before, got your ship material or base material and you got your good quality.
Joel Pond: Depends which route you go, man. Different business models, like.
Paul Cohalan: So you haven't been over there yet?
Joel Pond: Nah, nah.
Paul Cohalan: When are you thinking of going?
Joel Pond: Next year. I was going to go this year, but I'll go next year because now I got like, running the business at Amex, cranking up points and that. So just business flights, cheap as. But I booked a flight to Canada. Business returns, 800 bucks, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Wow.
Joel Pond: With your points last, you'd be the same. Probably on Amex or.
Paul Cohalan: No. Yeah, I had a mx. I got rid of it. Yeah, I did have it for a few years.
Joel Pond: Yeah. Good for the points.
Paul Cohalan: No, they're good. Yeah.
Joel Pond: Because I think about all this. Add two and a half grand a day. I'm spending. That's on. That's on amex. So you're getting points. Getting points.
Paul Cohalan: Levi, I'm gonna kick your ass buying me that plant because these bugs.
Joel Pond: I'm not. I'm all good.
Paul Cohalan: I'm watching them go around your head.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So. So you and the miso. Are you gonna have another kid or are you happy with being a stepdad or.
Joel Pond: Oh, no, I'. So I'm still. No, I think kid one day, bro. Definitely. I think. I think it's the right thing to do is to have a child. I think it's the right thing to do if you're able, willing, if you're going to put in the effort. Everything 100 but snow rush for a guy. There's no rush for a guy. Rush for a girl. So that's another. We're like real low maintenance couple, bro. Like.
Paul Cohalan: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Joel Pond: Real chill.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, that's wicked.
Joel Pond: Yeah, it's cool. Good.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: What's. Yeah, it's good.
Paul Cohalan: I think that's why the business that you got suture as well. Like even you telling you you've got to pay 30, wait a month, two months. Like, you're a pretty crazy guy. I'd be this. I'm impatient.
Joel Pond: Yeah, but it's. It is.
Paul Cohalan: You got it is what it is. Yeah.
Joel Pond: Acceptance.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: But patient. That's probably. I think I was patient before jail, but definitely jail patient because you have to go being in your own space option, bro. Like, you find out this is what. This is what the reality is. You've got to be patient, bro. You see their way.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, I'm pain. I'm more patient in the background. I do heaps of like thinking, planning, like process in my head. But then when I'm. When I'm on, I'm on. Like when I'm. I'll make quick decisions, do whatever. Like, let's. Let's go.
Joel Pond: No, I don't do much planning, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah, I do. I do answer that. But we've got different businesses. But I. I know nothing about clothing or retailer. Cool. That's why.
Joel Pond: But I know nothing. I knew nothing about clothing and. Or business. So, like, you know, at the start, you're like, I just designed clothes. Like, I've had the. Where I rent the warehouse guys who built it there in the first one. And he's come up because he sees me there. 5. He sees me there all the time. He goes, you, man. He's like, what are you doing? He's like, what are you doing all the time? Designing clothes. That's what he said to me. And I was like, no. I said do everything. And I walked away. I was like, that's what I thought it was too. Just designing clothes. Like, you don't understand how much shit there is, bro. How many different department, like one Target, customer service, the product, fulfillment, advertising, your email. So like there is so. And then all your moving parts. You've got to tweak this, optimize this to run test. It's ecom's constant testing. Like you're constantly. Yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: A/B testing.
Joel Pond: And I'm learning, I'm getting there. I've just actually. Oh, I've been paying, but I've been. This is my thing with courses. But I've been paying 500 bucks a week. For coaching course for the last year, I spent like 18 grand. Whatever. I haven't been on a coaching call for over six months. I just haven't been on one. I haven't been in there. That's their portal's got all their knowledge training there. I'm not even in there, bro. So I just quit. I just left them the other day and I hate them. They're good. I learned a lot from them. But like, like, I think at this. I just don't utilize a lot of training, bro. I'll go into it, pay money. 10 Grand, 20 grand, 8 and grand for course. And then like, be like, I don't know. It's just my thing with training. But I pick up what I've obviously learned a ton.
Paul Cohalan: You know what I mean?
Joel Pond: I've obviously learned enough.
Paul Cohalan: I'm a bit sad, dude. Entrepreneurs usually are. Like, you skim, you learn. Like, some things I'll dive into, but there's not much I finish when it comes to that. Like, I'm like, you're busy back here. Yeah. You take what you have out of it.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah. So I'll bounce on them. But I might, like, I think at the moment, God, I'm not gonna expect. Like, I know what I'm doing, but I mean, in. For now, it's just buying more clothes and scale and spend more money on ads and scale. Like, I don't not. I'm not saying you don't need a coach, bro. As I said, I've spent six grand on coaching, so I got. It's a good, good idea. I think this year I know what I'm doing. Enough to scale. It just wants to get bigger. Probably in a year or two, I'll need someone who has scaled a business. Okay. What now, bro?
Paul Cohalan: Just go find him.
Joel Pond: But Hormozi bro has got everything.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Like, are you part of his thing, his new court, his new program?
Joel Pond: But I've got his. I'm thinking I bought his books and he on his plate. He's got playbooks and.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: As well. Banana.
Paul Cohalan: So tell me. Tell me with Claude, right? Are you. Did you build an agent or are you just prompting it to do what you want?
Joel Pond: So this is. This is why I was asking this question. Because I. They. They are. They are agents. So my work. My workflow, bro. Mine's. I can work from anywhere on the planet. My work's on my phone now. Yeah, but it's. Yeah, they're agents, bro. So when you're in Claude Code. So if I go into Claude Code, there's all my chats here. Yeah, but they all, all of them, all of them basically are the same thing, connected to my brain. They know everything about the business and they're all, they're connected to my emails, my ad account, my everything. But I've got different chats. So emails, I'll go, yo, what's going on with emails today? I'll talk to him, he'll go do everything. So I don't even really go onto the browser, I don't go in the Shopify, I don't go into nothing Ads manager, just in here. Not even Klaviyo emails like so there I've created the agents. But you just, you, all you do is get your Claude subscription. The main thing, bro, is setting up a brain because at the start you'll talk to Claude, you have a conversation, the next chat it won't remember nothing. So the biggest thing setting up, you just set up the memory, the folders, right? And then you just connect it to your tools. And then I just tell him, like,.
Paul Cohalan: You build a business context document.
Joel Pond: A business context document? Yeah. No, I don't even know what that is. Right. It's called a Claude MD file is what it's called. I don't even know what that stands for. But that's just your business, that's just where your business context is and everything.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: So the business context. Yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So I end up like, because it learns all the time, it knows all my businesses, everything, right. Me and it tells me off and whatever, focus on this. But I go, give me a business context document. It'll give me all the summary of all the information of everything. Because you, you want it as a hard copy because you might want to go put it in ChatGPT or anything else.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And then every month we'll update it every two months.
Joel Pond: Yeah. So my, like my as my customer service checks my emails every half an hour, answers customer service professionally, politely, it hooks them up. If it flags me, if it's something like say a refund or something called code. This is called yes,.
Paul Cohalan: You tell it.
Joel Pond: To schedule like so right now what do we want to do, bro? Should we do a test on the website? Yeah, let's do a test.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, show us how you use it. I'm always interested how everyone uses it.
Joel Pond: This is simple. This is how simple business is now, bro. So that's our homepage. What does it say? Seven new elite pieces. Yeah, this is just a simple example. Seven new elite pieces. I'll go to my web dev. Yeah, whatever Asian chat I want to call them Ops. Ops is called.
Paul Cohalan: We're doing it through Telegram and that as well.
Joel Pond: Oh yeah. So this is Claude here and then I've got. Yo, bro, I'm just running a test live. Can you jump on the website? It says seven new pieces on the homepage video. Can you change it to eight real quickly, bro, please go. Also on laptop. Do you have Wispr Flow or do you type?
Paul Cohalan: I've been using it 12 months.
Joel Pond: 12 Months? Yes. Game changer.
Paul Cohalan: As soon as Dan Martell come out with it.
Joel Pond: Does he really?
Paul Cohalan: Dan Martell, man, he is the goat. You're testing platforms? Yeah, he's tested over 500 AI platforms.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And he. Every week he'll say what's the leader? And it'll change and, and then he'll tell you how to do the business, how to like. Do you follow Dan Martell?
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah. He's.
Paul Cohalan: He's a weapon.
Joel Pond: Definitely. Yeah. Not like flat, not flat out because I follow these people. But I don't watch much.
Paul Cohalan: I just pick it up on my phone now. But mate, I went off rage. I started 3, 4 in the morning. Yeah, just getting up with it. You've got to be ahead. You've got to embrace it. Yeah.
Joel Pond: Like just give us through the minute. He'll go and do it. But that's like every. And their automation set up. So right now, customer services, same as your AI, whatever. Customer service getting handled. But it's not a human, it's AI doing it. It. It'll flag me, flag to me. If someone says if it's like a refund something and I, I okay, it Ads is ads. I just say, yo, what's going on with ads? He goes, checks all the data. He turns ads on and off for me. So every morning we, I've trained him on data. All this knowledge I have, I've trained him. He's got all of it safe, right. So he knows how to read data better than I do. So that's why I had to go in ad account running my ads. But it's like he, my AI reads data faster than a human and he can turn ads on and off and upload them. Bros. He uploads them and then we just check the data every morning.
Paul Cohalan: What are you connected to to do your ads?
Joel Pond: Meta.
Paul Cohalan: Oh yeah, you're doing it directly. Meta. Yep.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah. So now it says eight. So it was sevens. Now it just says eight. So it's like that whole website is custom and I like do this animation, do this like you just. And you just sit there and Talk to them back and forth like. No, change this now, Change this now. Instead of having a developer, it's just.
Paul Cohalan: We, we, we've rebuilt all our websites like that on Claude as well.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah. What do your websites look like? Because that's. I haven't made a hectic one yet. I've seen some hectic ones on the Internet.
Paul Cohalan: Why? I done a JV with these lead gen guys.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Like I've been doing. My close mate of mine's been doing the AI.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: But they built this truck website, insurance truck website. They've. Miguel, he's come over from, from Portugal. I don't know. Anyway, he's staying with my mate at the moment and he's actually sponsored by Anthropic and he. What's his name? Miguel. And he's. He's built these systems man, like for their Digital Legion business. And mate, he's off the charts the way they're actually building the sites through Telegram. So Telegram's a big platform that they talks to AI and all as well.
Joel Pond: Oh yeah.
Paul Cohalan: But he, he hasn't built on Claude, I don't think the AI. And he's got his own service and he's built these platforms. AI platforms.
Joel Pond: What's the servers for? What are the.
Paul Cohalan: Well, hosting.
Joel Pond: The AI hosting AI.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. So he's like. I think he might have. I actually haven't sat with him and asked but I think it's open source and he's built the systems on the servers and for other people.
Joel Pond: Oh yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And he, and he's built whatever he's done and he's like they're building these websites, man. They've trained these things to be nuts.
Joel Pond: Oh yeah.
Paul Cohalan: See like big website and the SEO in days.
Joel Pond: So what's that? That's just the training from his one or. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So I don't how much he's done, this guy.
Joel Pond: Yeah, I don't pretend I have nothing really. What the he's doing, bro? Just keep learning because in Claude Code, when you have it in Claude Code it's like a. It looks like it's just. Yeah, it looks like you're like, what the is going on here, bro? Yeah, but you're just talking to it in human language. Hey bro, go do this.
Paul Cohalan: It's game changing man.
Joel Pond: Like I would need employees packed by now like to do stuff.
Paul Cohalan: Definitely.
Joel Pond: Like.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, it's wicked man. It's like emerging and like what do you think the biggest gain is going to be in the next 12 months with the AI? Now, what's your next thing that you want to get in the business or.
Joel Pond: No, I don't even. I don't even know, bro. What, like, you mean in AI technology in general? Just to help me. To help me where you're at. Because I don't. I don't know where the it's going to go, bro. Like 12 months for me, like, because.
Paul Cohalan: You're constantly working on it.
Joel Pond: Right.
Paul Cohalan: Like, what's the next thing you might get in the rabbit hole with or try and improve process or.
Joel Pond: It helps me with. It's got everything. I literally sit in my office and talk to it like this. I'm just talking to it all day long, which is surprising. I should be better at speaking, but I sit there just talking to them all day long. And you go through the chat, you go, yo, what's going on? What can we do here today? And then you go through the chat. So just like having seven employees you're talking to and they're just doing for you. So it's like, I've got it that pretty sussed. But obviously, yeah, who knows the technology. There'll be a better platform.
Paul Cohalan: That's. That's Mask one.
Joel Pond: I've got no. I've got no neat Claude Code does everything I need it to do, like.
Paul Cohalan: And there's no point chopping. I moved from ChatGPT.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: I'm happy I did that. But I'm not going to move back when they all change.
Joel Pond: Because it's going to keep happening.
Paul Cohalan: Because it's going to keep. It's emerging, right?
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah. They might not even be the best ones in six months, bro. Who knows?
Paul Cohalan: And you set up your system and process and you train your people. Because I've got people.
Joel Pond: What I. What I really should be doing, but it's a separate business, is making money on this AI automation stuff, bro.
Paul Cohalan: For other e commerce businesses.
Joel Pond: Other e commerce businesses.
Paul Cohalan: What?
Joel Pond: You know, bro, if I could sell it to, let's say, a brand that's, yeah, doing the same numbers as me, roughly. But they've got 10 staff. Not that I'm trying to get rid of humans or anything working, but it helps so much, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Yep.
Joel Pond: Like, you could take your. Cut your costs down tens of thousands and, like, if I sell a course, I sell something for two grand. And it's just all you need to do is set up the brain properly, get it connected to all your tools and get it trained on how you operate. That's the big thing, bro. If it's trained, massive knowledge base.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: With A smart bro. And it's the. It's the best thing you'll do, but kind of the worst thing, because it's the same as a human, bro. It can make mistakes. Well, I've done a lot of things. When I started the ad account, man, we were. I've had it trained on all this knowledge, and we set up the ad account, doing these things, and I was like, why'd you do this, bro? He's like, oh, yeah? And I was like, bro, are you even using your knowledge? Like, we'd set up the ad account, launch live ads, spending thousands dollars on ads, and he wasn't even using his knowledge base. He wasn't even using his brain. So, like, it makes mistakes, bro. Like, that's the whole thing, setting up the brain properly. I've gone through countless AS ups with it, man. Holy, bro. So much time, effort, energy, but all worth it now because I'd need employees packed, like.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Yep. So do you think how packs your warehouse?
Joel Pond: Not. No, I got fair.
Paul Cohalan: Fair.
Joel Pond: Not even 50 capacity full.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, even.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah, probably 50 maybe. And it depends. Ideally you want to sell out every month. Ideally you want to clean the warehouse, but that's not true. But that's not. That's not the case at the moment. But I mean, ideally, like, say a big brand like Geedup or someone who do millions of dollars on drop day, like, they. They would have their warehouse stocks bang. Yeah, they're doing three mil in a day, bro. Who's that Geedup? Geedup's company, front Front Runner will be doing numbers like that as well. 1 Mil, 2 mil.
Paul Cohalan: Which one's Geedup? Is that Troy Candy's?
Joel Pond: Nah, I'm sure his name, bro. Jake. Jake. Someone shout out Geedup, bro. It's good inspiration there too.
Paul Cohalan: Where's he?
Joel Pond: Over east.
Paul Cohalan: He's Sydney, innie?
Joel Pond: Yeah, Sydney. Yeah, Sydney.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, I think I know.
Joel Pond: Yeah, they're biggest. They must be the biggest Australian brand, really, because I got like 300 something.
Paul Cohalan: K. Troy was over here on Sunday. I know. He's got. I think. No, he was wearing evidence gear, but he had the drink called Flip. Flip. Flip.
Joel Pond: No, he's got a drink called G Up, not G. Oh, is that what is G Up?
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, I knew there's something.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nah, Geedup, bro. Clothing. Big street.
Paul Cohalan: That's Adrian Portelli, man.
Joel Pond: Yeah, I've not really. I've seen it. I've seen it bounced.
Paul Cohalan: I really like him.
Joel Pond: I watched one minute of his. Yeah, yeah, he's a G bro.
Paul Cohalan: He opened up up in SA the other day, the Servo lmct. Oh yeah, in sa. And it was chockers. People were packed from like the night before, lining up. And he moved to Dubai. And he's just so transparent about everything. He's like, they freezed all these accounts and he was on with Criminal podcast. I'd love to have him on. He was on the podcast with Carl. What's his name?
Joel Pond: Stephanov. Yeah, yeah, I watched like.
Paul Cohalan: I like him too. A lot of people don't like him, man. Carl Sanderland's man. He's buckled at the moment emotionally, but he's a good guy too, man. He just says how it is.
Joel Pond: Yeah, bro. I don't even really look at people. I try not to even look at people. Whether I even like that guy or not like that guy. If they're saying good, if they're saying something valuable, it's valuable, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Exactly, man.
Joel Pond: A lot of people can't like, I hate that guy. What are these spitting facts, bros? Now you're gonna go against facts because you hate some guy? That's stupid, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. So there was something else I was going to ask you.
Joel Pond: What?
Paul Cohalan: What haven't I asked you? What did I know about you?
Joel Pond: What do you don't know about me? I don't know even childhood briefly Jail business. That's. That's. That's about it bro.
Paul Cohalan: So when I try and do a check in six months later.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: But I go to the venue like.
Joel Pond: Come for a drive then bro.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, I reckon we'll go down and we'll sit in your warehouse and we'll get the boxes and. And we'll see how you going in six months. That'll be cool.
Joel Pond: Yes.
Paul Cohalan: The other question is. Two more questions. Who can I get on that? You know because this is a compound networking thing. Right. Who's a. Who would come to mind that would sit in the chair and having a chat.
Joel Pond: What's the criteria? Just some sort of nothing man. Just some sort of journey.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: Like I don't. I don't. I'll have a think about it but nothing gone off top of my head, but, yeah, I don't know.
Paul Cohalan: What'd you get out of today?
Joel Pond: What did I get out of it today?
Paul Cohalan: Decides to drive up.
Joel Pond: I mean, what did I get out of it?
Paul Cohalan: Get anything out of it,.
Joel Pond: Like, yeah, the experience, bro. This is. This is it right now. I've never been on anything like this 100. Because I think inevitably I'm going to go on more podcasts or. It's going to happen, bro. I'm going to keep cranking this brand, like, it's good.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: I haven't. I haven't utilized my. The story in that either, but it's just you've got the skill level to convey that and stuff like that, so it's just good to come on and talk, bro. I'm like, yeah, I'd not. I know I'm not the best speaker, so I'll listen to this bit back and then I'd go, oh, yeah, what can I reflect on you, mate?
Paul Cohalan: You're great, don't worry.
Joel Pond: No, I'm not. I'm not Even you're just being you, man.
Paul Cohalan: That's what it's meant to be.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah. I don't give the. Bro, it is what it is.
Paul Cohalan: Like. Yeah, no, that's. That's the.
Joel Pond: My ads have been seen by. My face have been seen by millions of people now. Millions.
Paul Cohalan: So that's wicked.
Joel Pond: This is what it is.
Paul Cohalan: Oh, yeah.
Joel Pond: If you just live authentic and speak,.
Paul Cohalan: I might have to hit you up. I have not done ads. I've done them a couple of times over the last 12 years.
Joel Pond: Right, right. Claude.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. I'm gonna go down the rabbit. I'm just resetting my digital footprint and my structure, my people, and then my. I'm doing my version 2 of my CRM so I can measure.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: And then because I've plugged Claude in, actually, I can't connect the MCP connector of Claude to Microsoft Dataverse. You can connect it to Microsoft, but what I built me CRM on is called Microsoft Dataverse.
Joel Pond: Okay.
Paul Cohalan: And it's Azure in the back end. And, man, I've got Azure, I've got Microsoft and Anthropic going to town for three months.
Joel Pond: What API is it?
Paul Cohalan: MCP connector. It's API, whatever it is. Right.
Joel Pond: I think they're different, bro. I think they're two different. I understand.
Paul Cohalan: Exactly. You've got to use MCP for Dataverse and it won't connect. It fails every time.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah, what about clunky? But, you know, browser.
Paul Cohalan: Browser, that's the interim.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So I have to do. I'm have to do that with the agents when I test them next week. We got.
Joel Pond: Yeah. So with your ads, it's as simple as going into a Claude Code chat and saying, yo, can we connect it to Meta? Can we connect to Meta? And you go, let's get connected to Meta. And he'll say, yeah, go do this. And then you say, okay, why can't you do that bit? And then I'll get them to do as much as he can and then he'll get you to get your keys, codes, whatever you get connected. And then. Yeah, I'll just get mine to prompt yours on all my knowledge on how it runs ads. You're obviously a different industry and whatever, but mine knows how to grade ads based on. You could just say, I'm in this.
Paul Cohalan: X. Oh, Claude knows my whole business.
Joel Pond: Yeah. So you could get it trained on my ads or any guy's ads, how Hormozi would run ads or how anyone would run ads. But you need a bit more specific on like the soft stats and the metrics. Yeah, like what dad's doing. And then yeah, I get mine to re turn ads on. Every day we have a check. I had the ads yesterday and he goes, I suggest budget up here. Why? And I go, why? And you got to double check him a bit and go, why do you suggest that? It gives you a suggested moves. And I just say, yeah, go dorm. And he goes and does, does the changes for me and that's how I run the ad account. Yeah. Instead of paying someone four grand a month to do it, just, I'll just do it.
Paul Cohalan: And you've been getting good sales.
Joel Pond: So the first, as I said, I made the fuck up in a first couple weeks, but now I just had our second best month. But it was the best month for new customers. So more money getting spent to cold people. That's what E commerce is, it's getting. You got to set up. Yeah, there's another thing, setting up your campaigns to only target cold people. Because if you just set up one campaign, Meta can try and just try and get you the cheap buyers. So it might just circle your customers and shit like that. You just got to set up swim lanes in your account. So you're spending money on new people. Like. Yeah, different ads for different people, different awareness levels. There's so much to adds. I'm not a guru at it whatsoever.
Paul Cohalan: You know more than you let on though.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: I think you've had no choice. Right. It's good. I might ring you one day and just bounce off you, but I'm pretty tech savvy. I work it all out. But when you, when you've done it and you've done the hard yards, working it out, even if you're using Claude, there's like, what you're just saying there's little bits. There's always a little bit. 1 5% Is. Yeah, you got to learn.
Joel Pond: I have these. I have the dumbest conversations people AI, like you'd say, you talk about your AI is one of my business bikes, basically. And they're like, oh, when I talk to it, it's stupid. It's like, bro, would you hire a random 12 year old and just think they're gonna know everything? Like you literally talk to it and you expect it to be a suit.
Paul Cohalan: Train it.
Joel Pond: Train it, bro. Yes, train it. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Even when you first get it and you go ask me questions about me so you get to know me and.
Joel Pond: My business, you can, people can, people can use it. Ask me deep questions about myself as a human, like if you want to do internal work, you do all sorts of stuff.
Paul Cohalan: Yep.
Joel Pond: Not saying you could. Should do that, but at least it's a different perspective on you. Like different even. A different perspective on how you're thinking something. You have a decision in your head,.
Paul Cohalan: Hey, bro, we'll go back 12 months. And you're prompting it right now. It's reverse prompt. You're like, I want to achieve this. How do I get there?
Joel Pond: That's it, basically, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Basically, yeah.
Joel Pond: Give it.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: Give it the goal, what you want. Yeah. I have so many conversations around. I'm sitting there like, come on, bro, I need you to. I need you to switch on because I need you today. Yeah, bro. 20. Yeah. Like hectic. Yeah. That's 24 7. I'm not touching my keyboard, bro. If I'm say I got a drop next week, I'm like, all right, emails. What are we doing? What's the game plan? He designs some emails, sends previews to me. I'll check them. Changes, changes, blah, blah, blah. That's the workflow, bro. That's what I mean. I'm kicking back at the beach, running the business, bro. Seven figure business. No employees, bro. AI.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: Come from jail, bro. I'm not tech savvy, Nothing. Like, it's just. It's just effort and intention.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, but you switch, Sean. You're not a totally idiot. Yeah.
Joel Pond: You're.
Paul Cohalan: You're underplaying a bit like you. You care. You're passionate about it, so you'll learn.
Joel Pond: I'm passionate about the goal.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah, that's right. And then you do anything you can to get there.
Joel Pond: Clothing brand's the vehicle. Yeah, that's the vehicle, bro. If the vehicle has to change, the vehicle has to change. But I love clothes, bro. It's representation of you, how you feel. Yeah, good.
Paul Cohalan: Feel good. Yeah, it's wicked. I'm gonna have a look through. Oh, it's coming into summer now. Did you get the white shorts?
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah. They're cotton. Same as material as this. Cotton. Cotton shorts, bro. Because that was. I wanted. Most things is cotton, but that was my thing. I wanted to be all natural. Sometimes I use polyester light.
Paul Cohalan: I just bought some evidence ones, white ones, actually, just for around the house.
Joel Pond: Oh, yeah?
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Are they tired of fit or are they loose?
Joel Pond: They are sort of standard, sort of, yes.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: Standards, for sure.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: When you come down, bro, we'll check you out. Get your wardrobe when you're down there. Definitely, because, yeah, get the beaters. I live in the beat. I'd Live in the beaters, right?
Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Like I'm gonna buy a couple more.
Joel Pond: Yeah, I'll give you something, bro. Yeah. When you. Yeah. Suss it out. Yeah, Suss it out.
Paul Cohalan: All right, man. Cheers for coming on.
Joel Pond: Oh, thanks. Having me.
Paul Cohalan: Next one, we're gonna come down warehouse and it'll be six months. Evolved again.
Joel Pond: Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Somewhere else.
Joel Pond: Yeah. Sweet, man.
Paul Cohalan: More boxes, more designs.
Joel Pond: Appreciate the time.
Paul Cohalan: What's the word they say on Shark Tank when you. There's a word they use when you got. It's on the tip of my tongue, like, say you got 20 different designs.
Joel Pond: SKUs.
Paul Cohalan: SKUs.
Joel Pond: SKUs.
Paul Cohalan: SKUs. That's the word I was looking for.
Joel Pond: SKUs.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: SKUs. Yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Is that what it is? SKU. Is it?
Joel Pond: SKU.
Paul Cohalan: I only picked that up off Shark Tank.
Joel Pond: What's the. Yeah, that's how many. Like you've got one product, right. So. But then there's six sizes, so that's six SKUs. Yeah. So your SKUs like a big brand.
Paul Cohalan: And then if you go different color. Is it another SKU? Yeah, it's a different.
Joel Pond: Because you've got it. Them. You've got them on your shelves with a bar, like on the.
Paul Cohalan: They're different.
Joel Pond: So every place on the shelf is different SKUs. The bags have barcodes on them. So when you're packing, like, this is a big thing. I'd suggest you set up ecom. So when you pack them, you'd scan it. Like, you scan. That's the correct product. Bang. Packet. The packing's meant to be.
Paul Cohalan: So you can track your inventory.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: Inventory and do numbers and.
Joel Pond: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Paul Cohalan: So you haven't had much return back. I was going to ask you that before.
Joel Pond: It depends. Depends. If you're looking at like what the government said on the P L of what my sheet's kind of saying. Because profit, profit wise is all, bro. Like what I want to say. Maybe 7%, bro. And I've done all this work. Yeah. 7% Profit off.
Paul Cohalan: And I'm talking about returns like faulty or.
Joel Pond: Oh, and all, man. All like, that's what I mean. 6. Six people said not the best shirt in their wardrobe, bro. Out of 12,000.
Paul Cohalan: Oh, out of 12,000.
Joel Pond: So, like, the returns are very. Some there. Sometimes there's a button that up or sometimes something's wrong.
Paul Cohalan: Yeah.
Joel Pond: I hook my. If something. If. I shouldn't even say that to encourage you, but if I. If I hear a faulty product, I'll hook that customer up. You make that. You turn their experience into a killer experience. Yeah, hook them up. Yeah, but all man. I reckon the lowest at any. Any clothing brand ever, period. Yeah, wicked. Set it there.
Paul Cohalan: All right, Legend.
Joel Pond: Do you. Love you, bro.
Paul Cohalan: Very good.