Simone Sichel: The Real Cost of Opening a Cafe

This transcript was generated automatically and lightly edited for readability. It may contain minor errors.

Simone Sichel: I would say that as today. If you tell me, Simone, I want to open a cafe, I'll tell you don't. The reality, percentage of success. Yeah. It's not worth the investment. Sometimes I really would prefer to like have a little bit more conservative mindset because it would have saved me a lot of trouble, a lot of money, a lot of mistakes, a lot of time.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Because you can't always succeed.

Paul Cohalan: No, you can't, because you do. You learn from your mistakes and your loss of money in time. Hey, man.

Simone Sichel: Finally here we're talking about this for quite a bit.

Paul Cohalan: We have, we have. And so we've got Simone. How do you speak? Last name Sichel.

Simone Sichel: Sichel, is it?

Paul Cohalan: Sichel, is it? So my name is Sichel, owner of Cup & Co and Avalon, that I know of. And I'm not sure what you call your warehouse in the background.

Simone Sichel: Oh, we're doing. It's still on Cup & Co brand.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, is it?

Simone Sichel: Yeah, we're using the. The cafe brand as this sort of a umbrella that is covering all the daily operation.

Paul Cohalan: Yep. So we'll learn a bit about that. That's the wholesale to other cafes. I actually live above the Floreat one, which is cool. And they've opened up the Claremont Cup & Co as well. So we'll talk a bit about that. So tell me where you're from originally.

Simone Sichel: So Italy. So move here.

Paul Cohalan: Whereabouts?

Simone Sichel: Maybe Milano.

Paul Cohalan: Are you from Milano? I think we spoke about that before. Yeah. And you moved here when?

Simone Sichel: Teen? 17, 15. Damn, I lost track.

Paul Cohalan: 2,000.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, 2,000. I think that is 13 years now.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: If I'm not wrong.

Paul Cohalan: So 17, 18. Somewhere there.

Simone Sichel: Somewhere. Yeah. Maybe a bit earlier.

Paul Cohalan: So when you first. What made you come over here?

Simone Sichel: So, short story is that I always want to be in hospitality.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So my mom, it was like I was talking the other day with my mom and she was like, you know when you are like 5 years old and you ask, do you get asked what like you want to do when you. And always the astronaut, the soccer player. Yeah, I was. Want to do a pizza. I was. I want to be a pizza maker.

Paul Cohalan: Nice. It's been in here since the beginning.

Simone Sichel: So through the years I always work in hospitality from when I was young. I didn't study, I didn't do uni, so I just did high school and I started early.

Paul Cohalan: So what year did you leave high school? What's it like in Italy?

Simone Sichel: So we have like a sort of a saint. The high school is dividing, like sort of a scientific high school lecturer. High School and it's like different types. So I did the scientific one just because it's not a particular reason you're choosing when you are 13 years old. So you've got no idea what's happening.

Paul Cohalan: Around interest at the time that year.

Simone Sichel: So just like a friend of mine was going there. So yeah okay, let's go mate, whatever. And then at the end you got nothing in your hand because that's basically it's the. In theory is made to prepare you for the uni. So anyway just done dusted finish and then I start to work around. My dad is always been a little entrepreneur as well. So he's always has his own business developing a little bit of houses, that sort of stuff as well. So I start to work with him. But it was not. It was not me. So I want to travel and I. It was. I was 19 or 20 and I just applied for a play for a. For a job that is in Italy. We have a big tour operator at that time named Valtur Valtur is exactly the same of Valtur. Valtur is an Italian at that time now is bankrupt like a few years ago I'm pretty sure. But you know the Club Med. Yeah French Club Med at that time the Italian one was as powerful as. So we had like I don't know, hundreds resort around the world. So sign in got in and for six years I literally like live abroad doing anime, this entertainment. I lived seven months in Maldives, seven months at. In Turkey. Then I did Egypt, then I became a ski instructor. So I did Alps, I did Dolomites. So basically what's happening the season is six months.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So you get six months allocated somewhere, then you're going 20 days home when the season's finished and then in that 20 days you're doing courses, whatever they want you to do and then they relocate it somewhere else.

Paul Cohalan: So you basically been unbelievable experiences.

Simone Sichel: Incredible.

Paul Cohalan: Like.

Simone Sichel: Like just.

Paul Cohalan: Just quickly so. And I should have done this at the intro. Obviously the journey and why I started was risk roadblocks and resilience like and. And I'll. I'll try and pick up on them as we. As we go through. But you would have had a lot of experience whether it was a lot of hard experiences too as well as good wins as well. Like you look back on it now, the memories you'd have were big losses, second to none. Big what?

Simone Sichel: Big losses too?

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Big losses. In which way back then?

Simone Sichel: Oh you just. You're losing. You're losing contact with reality because it's like you're living in a place that is basically a dream place for everyone. So everyone basically pay thousands of thousand of dollars to get a week there as a holiday. You leave in contact with people that they are on holiday and they are completely different than when they normally leave.

Paul Cohalan: So you get a bit of complacent. Is that what you mean?

Simone Sichel: Oh, you just like, you completely extract from problems. So you just. Because people that they coming. The circle is like a weekly circle. So you basically every Saturday night or every Sunday was. I don't remember. Anyway, a day of a week, the resort is getting completely empty. Yeah, Everybody goes. Twelve hours of empty resorts that you prepare yourself, prepare the results for another wave of people coming in for six months.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: And this is all resorts with thousands of people. So I'm talking about, I believe in resorts with 1200, 1300.

Paul Cohalan: What was the hardest resort or country?

Simone Sichel: It's different. Like there is like when I was in Egypt, there was a massive resort that has its own challenges. There was like a lot of people, a lot of restaurants, a lot of activity, lots of staff. And then I live on the flip side at the Maldives where were on the island then, There was like 200 people every week. So the opposite, the completely opposite.

Paul Cohalan: But has its own challenges and wins.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. Maldives was probably the best place that I've been personally. But because of me, I can see that there was a lot of people that after two or three weeks that they were working there, they want. They run away. They'd like not get me out of here.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: You consider that is an island. I was running in my time off, like a night, an hour or something like this to keep fit and all.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: You consider that Today to do 5k running, I have to do 35 laps of the island.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, wow.

Simone Sichel: So very small.

Paul Cohalan: Is that right?

Simone Sichel: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: So you're. And. And you're what, 20, 21 then?

Simone Sichel: Yeah, around. In between 20 and 25.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Then at 25, around the 25 mark. It was like a sort of a decision time. I was growing into the. Into the. So the sort of a chart of the. Of the resorts. So starting from the bottom, then I became assistant and then I became manager.

Paul Cohalan: Going through the.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. So were in a spot where it could became a proper job. So becoming like director of resorts and that sort of thing.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, wow.

Simone Sichel: I don't know. I probably wasn't ready. I probably didn't. I don't know. It's just like, okay, that's enough for me.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, you just made a Decision 1Day25.

Simone Sichel: Go back to reality.

Paul Cohalan: Did you go back to Italy or did you come here?

Simone Sichel: Yeah, I went back to Italy and that was when I, with the help of my father, because I didn't save much at the time. I took a share in a bar and then when started in Milano. Yeah, in Milano. Then we had. After this, I had a share in a restaurant. Small one. Everything small. Yeah, the share is small, the restaurant small. So everything very small. And I was completely useless. Literally, like completely useless. And it's not somewhere no idea what I was doing. And yeah, lucky enough, learned a bit. Then I have an opportunity in Spain. We. I went to Spain to open a little restaurant in Formentera, that is a little island of the Ibiza. Didn't go well. Probably my mistakes. I was too focused on party and not focus on work.

Paul Cohalan: Age not as mature as you should be, all that stuff.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, definitely thought there was.

Paul Cohalan: I love how honest and accountable you are on that. Vulnerable. And no doubt it leads to where you are today. But. But you got to start somewhere. You still learn from it whether you win or lose, don't you?

Simone Sichel: Look at the beginning. I got a feeling that you just lose. Is that what you're getting in an industry? I don't know. I told you, I got no really comparison with any other industry. So everything that I did is always.

Paul Cohalan: That's what, you know, hospitality, food, food.

Simone Sichel: So in our industry, it's really one of the things that you need to have experience because if it's not, you just, you're not gonna succeed.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, it's just.

Simone Sichel: It's just not happening. So.

Paul Cohalan: So you've had your journey. Right. But like, if you had your time again or someone else was gonna go do it, what would you say? Go and learn to be a chef or whatever first, or go through the.

Simone Sichel: Bullshit in the kitchen or you need to split shifts.

Paul Cohalan: Hospitality.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, that's. It's like, it's. There is a lot of times that now I'm. It's in the last, let's say 10 years that I'm here in particular that there is a lot of experience now in my background. And of course people coming in particular with the wholesale business. Because we have this wholesale business where we serving around 20 cafes every day.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: With all the food that they selling. So there is a lot of other place, other people that come into me before to open the cafe and say, we want to sell your food. No problem. Have you got any advice? Can I show you the plan? Do you have any, you know, suppliers that I Can use and they start to pick my brain. That is fine. It's lovely.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: I did the same with someone else.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. You've gone through the hard yards, right. They come up to you.

Simone Sichel: It's. It doesn't, it doesn't make sense if you come into me and I did a mistake.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: It doesn't make any sense that I let you do the same.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, definitely.

Simone Sichel: Stupidity.

Paul Cohalan: It's so good.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. It's just like I tell you, look, you can do whatever you want because you're free to do whatever you want. But.

Paul Cohalan: And just by the way, like Simone, what I loved when I first ever met someone in his cafe and I didn't know you'd done the wholesale, but the food, you know, the food you can go get, take away the instant stuff without sitting down comes from his wholesale, obviously. But you go to most cafes and that and the food is pretty cookie cut and the same. But Simone's gone out and got his own, done his own. And it's just that level above and the attention to detail and quality put in is. That's what I've found with it, man. Like I go to airports, go to just most cafes. It's all dropped off and it's all the same croissant, the same, you know, sandwich.

Simone Sichel: The problem is that our industry now is a challenge.

Paul Cohalan: Incredible challenge by margins, cash flow.

Simone Sichel: It's becoming, it's becoming. I would say that as today, if you tell me, simone, I want to open a cafe, it's a.

Paul Cohalan: Don't.

Simone Sichel: I'm telling you, don't.

Paul Cohalan: It's just, I think we've had this a few times, like, don't do it,.

Simone Sichel: Don't do it, don't do it. Because it's the, the reality percentage of success. Yeah. It's not worth the investment at this Stage as today, 15 years ago, when the margin were better, you had a little bit of room to play with. So you can do some mistakes and you say, okay, this week, for example, I did these mistakes and I didn't make any money, but I break even.

Paul Cohalan: You're turning over. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: At the moment it's not even doing. If you're doing everything's perfect, you can still. You. It possible that you not make money anyway. It's like the wages at the moment, percentage wise, it's cost of product and the retail prices. That's what it is. The problem is that in WA in particular, I would say that we are behind. I'm probably going to be Controversial here because people don't really understand the industry.

Paul Cohalan: And the back end of it. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: This is not because people are stupid or anything, it's just because they ignorant on that particular topic.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, naive. Yeah. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So it's like if the wage is. It's 45% of your revenue. Everybody, every landlord, it's greedy and he wants a solid amount of money on rent. And then you got to fit out,.

Paul Cohalan: Then you got to.

Simone Sichel: Cost of product is 30%. So if you cost a product and wages are 75%.

Paul Cohalan: 75%. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: As you say on flip side, people say, oh, but you got 25% left, man. Insurance is crazy.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Rent is crazy. Utilities in the last five years, it's double. Yeah. Officially double. So I was paying in Floreat. I got no secret. I was paying around 1500, $1600 a month in electricity. Last bill was $3,800.

Paul Cohalan: Wow. In that shorter period of time it.

Simone Sichel: Is exactly the same fridges. Nothing is exactly the same setup. It's exactly the same things. That's.

Paul Cohalan: That's crazy, isn't it?

Simone Sichel: And you consider that it's going to affect. In between the 2 or 3% that you were paying before now is 6, 7%.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: And that 25. Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: So you down to 18. Then you got insurance, then you got down and down.

Simone Sichel: It's just.

Paul Cohalan: And. And then there's the error bit which we're in business. Right. So there's always stuff up and down.

Simone Sichel: It's as you said. Like tomorrow morning I wake up and my coffee machine touching wood. Not happening.

Paul Cohalan: But don't say that out loud.

Simone Sichel: Decide to know where. What's it going to cost.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Plus. Plus the downtime. Plus the. You're not in routine throwing everyone out.

Simone Sichel: As you said. Like it's becoming. I don't know where we're going to go. But you see already if you pay attention in the social media. Yeah. Than you do for sure. A lot of places are closing down.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: They not really telling you that they're closing down. But they're closing down.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So. Thank you. We decide to move venue and then there is not moving anywhere. Yeah. Or yeah. We're taking two months off because we gonna decide to travel abroad because it's egocentric. I would be the same. It's like I would not tell everybody.

Paul Cohalan: Pride, ego. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: It's normal. It's human.

Paul Cohalan: And you've put everything into it. You built relationships. Very community driven cafes. Right. As me and you. You know me and you're good with People, but very community driven. And then you like go and shut down. Like I see some cafes and I'm pretty fussy. I like going to nice places like yours and you go to some cafes and it's still that old school bain Marie with bloody hot food in it and a sandwich bar and there's actually some close by. And I'm like, how do they keep going? They don't have the big fit out. They don't have.

Simone Sichel: Sometimes it's like it works. Sometimes as you say, like if you eat well, your market, whatever market it.

Paul Cohalan: Is, you hit an inch. Maybe.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. Maybe it's not my personal preference or your personal preference, but if it works in a way that you hit the right market and they got a lease locked in five years at a price, fine.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: As you said, like if you're not. If you are an owner operator like we are as well. So you're working in. Yeah, you can make it work. But the problem is that there's a lot of people that 10, five years ago, particularly after Covid that they were thinking that make open a cafe was easy. So there's. The cafe's popping everywhere and then the owner is not working in.

Paul Cohalan: So it's managed.

Simone Sichel: But as every business is not just a cafe, it's every business. It's like a plumber is like everything. Yeah, yeah. It's like if you're not there.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: And that's another things that people don't understand. And let's give. I give you an example that I was speaking with some customers the other day.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So you're a plumber, right? Oh let's say you're a young kid and you want to became a plumber. So you're doing your apprenticed. The apprenticeship, right. It's sorry by English. It's sometimes it's not great but. So you're doing at least what a couple of years again with someone to learn. Starting to learn the skills in that two years you're not really doing any important jobs.

Paul Cohalan: No, no. You don't really hit it till you're qualified.

Simone Sichel: Exactly.

Paul Cohalan: Three and a half years in.

Simone Sichel: Okay, three and a half. So then you get qualified but you still not an expert.

Paul Cohalan: Definitely not viewed.

Simone Sichel: Okay, so you done the foundations. You know, you're gonna work for someone that he has a lot of years of experience and you're gonna start to do some little jobs. Then if you good, you can start to do a little bit bigger jobs and maybe you're gonna buy yourself a van. How many Years. We are in five, six.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: So now you can start to do maybe your own little jobs.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: And then maybe you go apprentice. We're talking about 10 years in here.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: And we're still doing small stuff.

Paul Cohalan: Well, it depends on the person. But yeah, I get what you're saying, let's say that. But you've done all this time. It's.

Simone Sichel: If you tomorrow morning you decide to open a cafe, where's your five, six years of experience?

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: How's it going to go?

Paul Cohalan: Well, unless you've gone and like work for you for five, six years and then you're like, hey, Simone, I'm going to go up my own. I have to buy this one.

Simone Sichel: I have people that come into me say, look, I want to learn, I want to open mind, show me everything. It's no problem. But you need to learn.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: And it's not going to take five minutes.

Paul Cohalan: And there's different cafes, like we spoke about before. Like I got a heaps of different ones and I'm like. And they're all got their strengths and weaknesses, right. Like, I reckon there's only one or two, couple of good ones here in Subi, down Rokeby Road. There's a few up top. There's probably only one or two just here, right. And there's a few. But it's like I go in, like, there's a little Italian one going, beautiful coffee, a lot of sweets and all that. But like do the food. I don't buy food there. They're all got their own little thing. But then depending what you're gonna open also, like you said before, right, like go to yours.

Simone Sichel: And you.

Paul Cohalan: I know how fussy you are and how much of a hard ass you are to make things like clockwork. Like, that's hard work, right? Because.

Simone Sichel: Oh, it's hard. It's very hard. But as he said, like this is. And I'm extremely lucky that I have George. George is my business partner.

Paul Cohalan: He's unreal. He's such a great guy. He is such a great guy.

Simone Sichel: He's insane. But that's another things. So as we said before, I can decide to not work, like to put hands and hire someone to do the job. But how you're going to control the quality if you're not the best to do that job. That's the same example of before, maybe when you became a very good plumber and you starting to hire 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 plumbers and then you're not actually doing the job but you still need to be the best one.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: That doesn't mean that you have to physically do it. That's all about. Because if you're not able to actually be a plumber, how you can quality control the work. And that's his.

Paul Cohalan: Most businesses go through it. If you ever want to scale, you've got to. Every industry is different because you need. You need margins and like you're obviously in really hard with me and you had this chat offline before at the cafe. So like. And I'm like, why don't you get someone in some way, you know, like instead of busting your. Obviously 10 years in and all that stuff. And you got Avalon as well. And it's like. And you're like. It's so hard to find the right person in hospitality because a lot of people hop and then you've got to spend a lot of time with them anyway. Which hey, insurance tradies, all of them. We've all got to do that. But you know, you've got such a great and high level there to get someone in to live and breathe that 1 percenters. That's. I think that'd be really hard for you.

Simone Sichel: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: I wouldn't envy on that.

Simone Sichel: Look, it's. It's just. I don't know, it's just how we see hospitality.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So like how me and George, we see hospitality. We always hands on. We try to not micromanage until a point. Yeah. So we have manager in place that they're doing a great job.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: They run in the day operation for us.

Paul Cohalan: Who's your manager in there?

Simone Sichel: Amber.

Paul Cohalan: It is Amber in there. Yeah, she's great.

Simone Sichel: She's incredible. Yeah, she's incredible. But as you said, like Amber. It's now five years that this with us.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: And took the time. Yeah. She's. She's been sponsored by us.

Paul Cohalan: She's great guys.

Simone Sichel: Now we. Now she's permanent resident now she's still with us. Yep. And trying to make everybody's happy.

Paul Cohalan: Is she rolling over to Claremont to like get the same culture or she.

Simone Sichel: We move another one in Claremont. That was the assistant manager.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, I know who it was.

Simone Sichel: It was Simon.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Yep. The. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: The other lady that was with us.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: We enroll her on the other side.

Paul Cohalan: How's she going over there?

Simone Sichel: She's doing great. Yeah, Doing great. Claremont at the moment is quieter than Floreat but it's. You can't expect that this one is Floreat.

Paul Cohalan: It's got a reputation now. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Of every day.

Paul Cohalan: The park never Stops, riders, the apartments, even just the whole estate. Like everyone knows that they're on the corner.

Simone Sichel: We're very lucky as well. We have like an incredible support from all the sports people.

Paul Cohalan: Yes, that's right. You know, Wildcats relationship with Western Force. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: We got WAIS, that is all the Olympic athletes.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: They all coming. They all very supportive with us. And we trying as well to be supported with them when they need anything.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: From our side. So. Well, that's. Yeah. Avalon is a different animal.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. What's the. I was shocked when you opened it up. I'm like.

Simone Sichel: Because it's.

Paul Cohalan: You've done an amazing job. Like I couldn't imagine the fit out and everything else. And it's like what you like even not knowing hospitality. I know I'd never do it. I know hospitality is hard and I'm blown away that you went down this restaurant. But it's beautiful.

Simone Sichel: Avalon is. Avalon is a dream that is on the making for 25 years.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, is it really awesome.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. For me and George, we literally like end up get like fulfill this sort of a dream that we both had.

Paul Cohalan: So you tick that box.

Simone Sichel: We ticked that box. If you ask me, would you like, would you do it again? I'd probably say no. Convincingly say no.

Paul Cohalan: Don't tell anyone.

Simone Sichel: But we're very happy now. After a year and a half.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: I would say that finally is getting the recognition that George deserve.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: Because the food is not because this hour. It's just because the food is really incredible.

Paul Cohalan: Yep. Yep.

Simone Sichel: It's just. It's just what it is. And as much as I'm involved and yeah. It's our baby. The reality is that the food is fairly incredible.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Yeah. That's great to hear.

Simone Sichel: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: I haven't been for a bit actually. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So we have. We just got a finalist of a Golden plate for the best Mediterranean restaurant in Perth. That is very good.

Paul Cohalan: Awesome.

Simone Sichel: Fingers crossed that we can make it over the line. I'm pretty sure that is October. The.

Paul Cohalan: Is it?

Simone Sichel: Yeah, in October.

Paul Cohalan: So what's the process with that? Like, this is obviously a big deal in your game. It's, you know, golden plate.

Simone Sichel: It's. It's one of the good recognition there is like the Good Food Guide. That is probably the most important.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: In our industry.

Paul Cohalan: Is that a w thing or a national.

Simone Sichel: It's a national thing.

Paul Cohalan: That's a. That's. Are they both national good food any comple?

Simone Sichel: I think so. I think so. They got like the. The usual wa department because we're so far away. So we can compare ourselves with places on the other side on the east coast. So they have like that sort of a WA department so. But yeah the Good Food Guide is basically the Michelin star for Australia.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Okay.

Simone Sichel: So they go instead that instead the stars they got the hats. So they wanted to add three hats.

Paul Cohalan: We good food God.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, we're not in yet. Hopefully. Fingers crossed we're gonna make it this year. And the Golden Plate is probably. Yeah. Less similar.

Paul Cohalan: Similar.

Simone Sichel: But yeah so there is a lot of categories, a lot of places, different categories. So we decide to compete in the Mediterranean inspired restaurants. So yeah, we got in the shortlisted with three of us now and in October they will announce who is the winner. Fingers crossed.

Paul Cohalan: So yeah, I reckon just. I don't know if you watch any of the podcasts yet but Hijerion Oyster. Yeah, he's a legend. He mentioned need a chef to get on here actually and he's going to intro me. We're going to do an event soon. November 12th I think we're doing an event down at Embassy down at Foreign Exchange in the back for the journey past and future guests and hopefully he'll come along as well. But hospitality is going to be a really cool gig to get guys on because every guys are ladies, doesn't matter restaurant heirs and all that and owners. It's just everyone does it a little bit different. Like I know Simon, Theresa has done an amazing job down there. They've got awards, you know the Embassy, I go there a bit lunches and whatnot. The chefs, I think Charlie is their chef, he does an amazing job and like they're doing.

Simone Sichel: They're doing very good.

Paul Cohalan: They took over so they've done unreal there.

Simone Sichel: Great place.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: And there's a back bar as well.

Paul Cohalan: The Foreign Exchange. Yeah, that's at the back. That's where the event will be and they've just done it really well and obviously Simon and Teresa, they've got a reputation off the back of Devlins and all the rest and being locals in Subiaco for 30, 35, whatever it is. But then Jerry mentioned and I. Is it Tim over at Pearl and Co? Is it Pearl Co or Pearl and Co?

Simone Sichel: What's. Yeah, there's Pearl and Company.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, I have. I haven't been there.

Simone Sichel: The chef that he sold. So the gentleman that he was the owner. I'm 99 sure. That is the ex owner of.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, he did. I think he did an institution.

Simone Sichel: He's an institution now. I just. I just. Oh my God. Bibintaka.

Paul Cohalan: I think you're right. I think Jerry said that actually. Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: Bib and Taka, chef and owner.

Paul Cohalan: He said he sold. Fantastic.

Simone Sichel: They sold Bibentaka.

Paul Cohalan: Yes.

Simone Sichel: Recently and on. Literally on the other side of the road, Ibn Taka, there was a sort of a empty venue and he took over. And yeah, he's doing an incredible job around there.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Only with it's. I'm pretty sure that is. I'd never been there yet, but my life at the moment is a little bit crazy and. But I'm pretty sure that it does only focus on seafood and fish. Yes, that is an extremely hard hurling curl or something.

Paul Cohalan: That's what I mean. That's what I mean by. That's what I brought up. Like, everyone's got their. Like you can compare everything, but you kind of can't like even go to Avalon. Right. You guys are heaps different again. You got the music every night, like, you know, piano, the.

Simone Sichel: And just for night at the moment, this. We did truffle night every Thursday this month.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, did you?

Simone Sichel: And it's been extremely successful. We had like close to fully book every Thursday. Oh, did tomorrow. Tomorrow Thursday. Yes, tomorrow Thursday. There's going to be the last of this truffle night. But because it's been so successful, George decided to extend it for another month. So every Thursday.

Paul Cohalan: I might come next Thursday.

Simone Sichel: Are we going to change completely the menu? So if someone is. Already came, he can come.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, you can come again.

Simone Sichel: It's completely different.

Paul Cohalan: How good. So, yeah, travel night Thursday this month as well. I. I might have to try that out next. This. I can't this Thursday. I got the kids, but got a.

Simone Sichel: Third or fourth of September, I'm pretty sure.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Nice. That's great. It's good.

Simone Sichel: We got a wedding now. It's becoming like. Yeah, it's. It's becoming. I just signed last week a contract with Qantas.

Paul Cohalan: Yes.

Simone Sichel: So they're gonna take the venue mid October and they're gonna do a big night for the platinum. Platinum tears.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: So the high. The high points.

Paul Cohalan: So they took platinum members used to be. That'd be. That'd be cool with Qantas because you. You've got. You got that back room that you're decked out.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. Private room, 25 people. But Qantas took completely. The venue closed. Oh, the whole venue is going to be 100 people.

Paul Cohalan: Fuck. How good is that?

Simone Sichel: Oh, look, it's going to be. For us is going to be a very good. Because it's going to be Probably a lot of people that never came before.

Paul Cohalan: So hopefully we get to get content from it. Taking leverage off it.

Simone Sichel: I think so.

Paul Cohalan: I think if it's done in a certain way. Yeah, that'd be really good.

Simone Sichel: Lovely. Lovely lady to. To. To deal with from the Qantas. They contact us. So yeah, now I'm starting to book weddings as well. So that's another.

Paul Cohalan: So they take the whole venue, wouldn't they? Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Tonight we have another wine dine. Wine, wine dinner and we have a full venue wine dinner with Lenton Brae two weeks ago. That was super successful with Jordan. Probably the most.

Paul Cohalan: When did you have that was the.

Simone Sichel: First of July, I'm pretty sure.

Paul Cohalan: Was that good?

Simone Sichel: It was incredible. Yeah. We have like the. Yeah, all the Lenten Bray guys were there. We have six courses with nine different wines pairing basically all the range. There was the. Not. Probably the most important and influential sommelier wine expert in WA.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: Jordan. So no, it was.

Paul Cohalan: Who's that? Jordan.

Simone Sichel: Top of my head. I need to check the.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: I need to check his surname.

Paul Cohalan: That would have been amazing.

Simone Sichel: Oh, it was incredible. And four hours so everybody was happy. Bit of live music as well. Yep. No, it was good, man. And so the.

Paul Cohalan: Just. Just on that. So like the next 12 months, two years on, that is like the more weddings, more association, company style because let's be honest, that's the standard it's at and that's why I was always shocked. It's like unbelievable fit out. It's amazing. The 1 percenters from your plates to all the decor.

Simone Sichel: Oh look, we try to be as you said, we try to get this experience. It's not like just food, just rocking onion and eating.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: It's just like when you're coming in from when you're coming in to when you're walking out, just get that sort of experience. So from the chairs that you're sitting in, the size of the tables, the live entertainment, the food, the service with no rotating tables. So if you're coming at 6 o' clock and you want to stay until 10:30, that's your table.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, I'll get you. We're not going to keep not pushing to get out, get more numbers.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, that's your table. So we have.

Paul Cohalan: Not many people talk about that.

Simone Sichel: That's probably 95 seaters comfortable in between 1900. Depends what the setup.

Paul Cohalan: I don't get pushed out of the cafe. I think I'm VIP there. I don't get turned over. So talking about the cafe downstairs of There you've got Claremont now. Yeah. You fitted that out. Done everything. How long goes. When did that open again?

Simone Sichel: We opened six months. February we opened.

Paul Cohalan: It was Feb. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So this February we opened. So not. Not that far away.

Paul Cohalan: No.

Simone Sichel: What's four or five months?

Paul Cohalan: How long does that take to get going? I remember talking to you about repeat customers and getting it right. You were telling me it's a bit hard in the beginning.

Simone Sichel: Probably here takes a year if you. And as you said, like there is a lot of factor that you need to calculate and then there is. Sometimes it just doesn't work.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: It's just part of the game.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: So I've considered that. I was reading a stats recently that in our industry you have a 17.5% success rate in two years.

Paul Cohalan: Wow. So you're gonna get through that Mark. To build the brand and the location and the. The audience, the market.

Simone Sichel: It means that in what it is, let's say four cafes that they open in today. Less than one is.

Paul Cohalan: Wow.

Simone Sichel: Is open in two years plus or is. Is open with the same owner operator. So it's not been change hands on all that.

Paul Cohalan: So. Yeah. Yeah. But like would you be in that bucket since you've had a few. You'd have a bit. Bit of a chance. I think then probably me going on or someone that's, you know, moved here because relationship, people skills is a big part. Right. Like, you know, you run a pretty tight ship. But also I see you in there, like even in the cafe where I live, it's like it's all about the people. Right. It's like trying.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. It's.

Paul Cohalan: And they're also the hard work as well.

Simone Sichel: Look, it's. It is. It is. It is hard. But it's lovely. As you say. I would not do anything different. We try anyone that you're going to talk with your. With you awfully a lot of people from hospitality of any kind. I guarantee that they. If they more than 20 years in the market, they. They all try to get out of it at least once. At least once. I guarantee that if you cross 25. At least twice.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

Simone Sichel: But then sucks them back in. Matt. You got like a five minutes out there without it. It's just like it's the pace of everything's around you. It's so much different than any other work. Yeah. And I'm not saying that it's better or worse. It's just different.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. It's just different. Do you know what I love and I can you. Can I rec and it's probably my business hat and just and employing over the years and stuff. I love it when you get in there to a coffee shop and they mainly do coffee, not much else. And they're just absolute guns. And you can tell they've lived on, you know, this big machine and they're like. Well, watching you go behind now, I know you fill in a lot and you're on and off but I mean like someone that's their job every day and you'll come in and they'll have full on combos. They'll do everything. They'll know half the people who ordered when they're dedicated like coffee. And it's amazing to watch actually.

Simone Sichel: It's the only way that's hard to get like that only way to get.

Paul Cohalan: People keep them moving.

Simone Sichel: That's the things is like you need to get the customers coming for you.

Paul Cohalan: And it's actually hard to get that barista. Right. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Simone Sichel: Point is like the. Then the barista moves, then the barista change.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: It's like a normal industry now. You know, you're changing jobs.

Paul Cohalan: It'll be owner operators that are that good. Usually regular. Yeah, have to be.

Simone Sichel: You got better offers and you got different experience.

Paul Cohalan: What's a really good barista get paid this day? And what's the lower end? Lower end could be anything.

Simone Sichel: I swear if you consider that a barista. Now let's say that we're talking casual so not our salary.

Paul Cohalan: Like 30 hours a week.

Simone Sichel: 40 Hours.

Paul Cohalan: 40. Yeah. Okay. Just barista contract.

Simone Sichel: Just barista, no features, working on the weekends. He clears comfortable. 15, 16, 1700 A week clean. So you're talking you get like 40 bucks an hour average.

Paul Cohalan: Yep. So you're talking 80 grand. Well clear.

Simone Sichel: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: So you're talking around 100.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, I would say that if you. Yeah, I would say something like it in between. Yeah, let's say that it depends how good you are, how much volume you produce.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, that's. That's the numbers, isn't it?

Simone Sichel: It's probably in between 68 to 200. That's where the difference is.

Paul Cohalan: So you can punch out numbers but to be good and have that people skill a bit is wicked. Like when they're really good because that's when people come back like there's a.

Simone Sichel: Lot of people that they can make good coffee now that is good. There's a lot of, let's say more than before. Yeah, it's still like it's a niche job. So it's a lot of experience. But is the machinery. Machinery as well helps a lot now technology is always like getting better and better. So it's helping the product. The. The final product is. Is get big helped by machinery.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: And it's always going to get better and better.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Like any industry. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: But the difference now is how good you are with people because as you say, if you pump like you say us for example that we're not the busiest around. Absolutely. Not even close. But we're doing probably 500 coffee on a Saturday.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Around that number.

Paul Cohalan: 500 Coffees. Wow.

Simone Sichel: But if you. If the guy that is actually hand the coffee to the person is actually smile as well, it makes that person experience five times better even just passing.

Paul Cohalan: It and like just saying something.

Simone Sichel: Yes. Yeah. Instead to be a machine that is fine. Don't get me wrong because if you produce a good coffee, that's what basically the business asking you. But the difference in between Paul coming again tomorrow to get that good coffee or Paul going somewhere else to get a good coffee because there is a lot of good coffees around. It's that smile. Yeah. Or is that how's your kid doing basketball today?

Paul Cohalan: Oh, you remember that's like in any business in it. But especially the coffee. It's so community driven.

Simone Sichel: That's it.

Paul Cohalan: And everyone wants that nice coffee in the morning. It's actually nearly a habit. People don't even need it sometimes it's like it's just a routine thing.

Simone Sichel: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: I do it with you and text, walk down, grab it.

Simone Sichel: I'll talk with Tegan that is on the coffee machine and just ask about her kid and she asked about my kid and I get a coffee.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Experience. It is that little bit of experience.

Simone Sichel: Because as you said before like many other jobs there is a lot of option around. Why should I drive there? Because that's. You live upstairs and it's convenient as well for you. But there's a lot of people that they come there.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Is heaps and I'm sure that they're on day way. Maybe they got another two options.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: But they going to come to us.

Paul Cohalan: Oh yeah. You're definitely up there. Like obviously talk to a lot of people. I have a lot of people come to me at your coffee shop and a lot of it's like hey, I'll come to you because you've got the one downstairs and it's Cup & Co. Like everyone knows it. You know actually you know what most people know they're like Yeah, I used to, you know, they had another one. I'm like, yeah, in a loop. And they're like, yeah, like everyone remembers it in a loo one big time. And I said, yeah, you sold it off and whatnot. Don't know a lot about it, but yeah, it's been.

Simone Sichel: It's been an incredible. It's been the first one that we.

Paul Cohalan: Opened that was the founder. Was it?

Simone Sichel: Yeah, there was a founder and I had at that time. Pardon me, at that time, another business partner. That was Paul, that great guy as he said like I would not been. It was being possible to open a place without him at that time.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Then we. After five years, it's. It's like a marriage. It's like were so close because Innaloo was such a small venue.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, I remember it. Yeah. What street was it on? That street?

Simone Sichel: Yeah, it was Emory Lev Emeriel.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, I always forget Emeriel.

Simone Sichel: It was just like a 40 square meter place.

Paul Cohalan: Yes.

Simone Sichel: And were working from open to close every day plus other stuff. But me and him was always in. It was in the kitchen. I was in front six days a week, every day. So it's really a lot of time. And after six years we just decided it was time to. To just move on our way. So I absorbed the Cup & Co brand and the cafe. At that time we had another venue in a Balcatta and it took over that. That is still on. Still is still working. I know that he does well so I'm.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, that's great.

Simone Sichel: Happy for him. Very happy.

Paul Cohalan: Good. Part of the journey, right? It's part of them. You know, it was a chapter or two for you and then obviously it's gone and then he's chapter's gone the other way.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, it's been like. Like I learn a lot.

Paul Cohalan: So that would have been. And obviously there's always more to this stuff whether it's, you know, relationship, business relationship, whatever. There would have been a few hard decisions. There would have been a hard decision to make. No matter what was pushing it to go like that. Because you're going to go.

Simone Sichel: It was incredible.

Paul Cohalan: The names, the brand.

Simone Sichel: It was like such a. It was probably the first for me really. Decision that you can call major. You can call decision.

Paul Cohalan: You're not on the line, you. What do I do next? The unknown. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: In particular in my industry where were. So I got better dates now. So 13 I arrive here. 15 I opened the first Cup & Co. Oh yes. So 2015 we opened Cup & Co and after I'm pretty sure six years, I'm pretty sure we decide to split the thing. But as he said, like he was a chef and he was, he's still an incredible chef for sure. And I was the front with the coffee and the rest. Basically keep the cafe without your chef there and means that I have to take on board hiring someone.

Paul Cohalan: It's.

Simone Sichel: That's the biggest decision that he was.

Paul Cohalan: A huge risk and all the roadblocks coming with it. But you still did it.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, we did it. I did it. I got lucky. Extremely lucky. Because after a few, probably a couple of years I found George. Yeah. His wife was working for me at that time as a manager of the wholesale business that were just open because in that time I just move in that sort of an all sale venue.

Paul Cohalan: Well.

Simone Sichel: And I need a manager because it was getting bigger. And Faye, that his George wife just apply and she's. She's a machine. If George is a machine. Faye, you don't want to mess with Faye.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Oh man.

Paul Cohalan: She's like, that's unreal.

Simone Sichel: And so yeah, she was working with me for probably a year and then she. George at that time was the executive manager, executive chef at Brika Greek restaurant in Northbridge. Extremely successful. But he was tired to work at night. So Fay, his wife told me is like, my husband is very tired. Would you talk with him about something? It's like, yeah, absolutely. So he jumped on board Cup & Co. As an employee.

Paul Cohalan: Match made in heaven.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, as an employee for like four months. And then after four months I told him, he's like, we need to go for a beer.

Paul Cohalan: Yep. Have a proper chat.

Simone Sichel: And as soon as we sit down, I was like, you're not an employee. I'm giving you share of the business. I don't want money.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Just take this, get in and because.

Simone Sichel: You owner, you deserve to be an owner.

Paul Cohalan: You working like fucking how good. I love hearing that stuff. Right. Like. And you work your ass off your stuff. Right. Like a lot of us and we're a bit mad and you know, live and breathe, wake up, go to sleep. To go and do that is a big call.

Simone Sichel: Right.

Paul Cohalan: And most people don't. But that's awesome. But you know where it sits.

Simone Sichel: You just, you just feeling it straight away. Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: When you go had it in your.

Simone Sichel: Gut, someone is like, okay, this guy is the guy.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: It doesn't. My dad once told me, or maybe a few times, but anyway, it's like, it's much better be a 5% shareholder of course than be the 100% shareholder of the deli on a corner.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, of course.

Simone Sichel: So it doesn't matter. The percentage is just a number.

Paul Cohalan: If you have on paper, if you.

Simone Sichel: Have the right people with you. It just, it just. First of all, it's easy.

Paul Cohalan: Five years, it doesn't matter.

Simone Sichel: It doesn't matter anything. It's just like it doesn't matter because you are nothing. We are now 53 people. So that we're working together in all the business.

Paul Cohalan: You know, it's funny, just on that quickly, I did it probably a few months ago, what you just did with the shares. Very good business partner on Jackson. And there's reasons behind it all, but had the same gut feeling. Right. He already earned in some, gave him extra. And then I was with someone Sunday night actually, and a lad I met and they got a pool. Pool gig building bull nose around pools, et cetera, blah, blah. He was telling me he worked for the owner for, I know, probably five, 10 years. He's part of the family that he works his ass off. The owner's 10 years older, 15 years older. And he goes, you give me 50% of the company. Obviously there's probably some condition, shouting over a period, you know, all this stuff, but he did that and we were talking about. I'm like, trust number one. And it's just the formula and in five, it's all on paper and in five years it won't matter. Like, he won't lose. And like not many do they, right. Have that gut feel and go just get them on board and embed them because what's the hardest thing in business?

Simone Sichel: But look, that's. I would say that is for me in that situation, I was the easy one. He was the hard one.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: Because it's like I was not desperate to find someone to help me because it's not.

Paul Cohalan: He was the right person.

Simone Sichel: But when I met him and it was just doing exactly how I would do, I would have done that was easy for me.

Paul Cohalan: And you know how I had.

Simone Sichel: First of all, I had like 6 year experience already in the same.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So I really know what I really need to get my life easier.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: And to get my life easier means that I can freeze like release time for me. And release time for means that we're going to have new opportunity, new.

Paul Cohalan: Work on the business more.

Simone Sichel: That's like. And he was exactly what I needed. So for me it was the easiest decision. The hard decision was him that after five months that he doesn't know me he doesn't know the business.

Paul Cohalan: Who's this guy?

Simone Sichel: And someone throw in his face that he want him to become a business partner. And he never been a business owner.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, I was gonna say that.

Simone Sichel: He's probably never been a business owner.

Paul Cohalan: Big decision.

Simone Sichel: So he was with family, with two young kids. Yeah. Like, because Marta and Dino, that. These. The two kids that they have together at that time, they were like two and four.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah. So they're obviously older now.

Simone Sichel: Just came from Greece, no visa. Chose like.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, so they hadn't been here long?

Simone Sichel: No, no, that's like. They were like probably two or three years that they were here. So visas not even in. In the process, but still. Still a long way. Consider that I became citizenship two weeks ago.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, did you?

Simone Sichel: Yeah. After 13 years.

Paul Cohalan: Congrats. Boom. Australian citizenship.

Simone Sichel: I'm an Aussie. And George, he will became first of September, I'm pretty sure.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, really?

Simone Sichel: He has the ceremony. So they arrive as well to the. To the final destination. But it took them 10 years. Took me 13 years.

Paul Cohalan: Wow. Takes some time, doesn't it? And money just constant.

Simone Sichel: 40 Grand.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Is that right?

Simone Sichel: Probably, yeah. In and out, around 40 for me and probably 70 for them. Because they're four of them.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, yeah. There's more.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. Like family. So you've got the kids, you got a wife. But it's incredible amount of money.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. I didn't know all that. I knew George as a business partner, but that's. So how many years has it been since you and George started? Is it 10?

Simone Sichel: No, I don't think we got 10. I think that we are around seven or eight.

Paul Cohalan: Seven or eight.

Simone Sichel: He was already a business partner when we opened Floreat. There was six years ago.

Paul Cohalan: I said, where'd he come into?

Simone Sichel: I think that probably the year before. Yeah, I think that is seven. I don't remember. I'm not good with that.

Paul Cohalan: No. But what business. So was it.

Simone Sichel: So it came in. Innaloo?

Paul Cohalan: Oh, Innaloo.

Simone Sichel: It came in when we still have Innaloo.

Paul Cohalan: And also you kept Innaloo and Paul went to Balcatta.

Simone Sichel: That's correct.

Paul Cohalan: Okay. Sorry. And then you sold Innaloo.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, we sold Innaloo three years ago. Unfortunately, he didn't end up in. Anyway, it was. There was another lesson that we learned, and it was expensive lesson. We learned another one.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Grow a bit. Don't do it again. Learn from it. Do it different.

Simone Sichel: Put it in the bag. And definitely not. Not do that way again. The only thing that is really sad is because it's. It's not even close to what were before now. Yeah, it's still open, but it's just. Oh, well, that is disappointing because it really. I really hope that they were like, keep doing. Yeah, good.

Paul Cohalan: But. Yeah, but that's one door shut for you guys. It's, you know, part of the. Part of the journey, the chapters and the. What happens. Right. So. And is there any inkling to open up anymore, or did you get Claremont going for the next couple years?

Simone Sichel: First look, now it's really the next 18 to 24 months. In my industry, they are crucial. Crucial in a way that they definitely need to change in the high part, like, politically, they have to take hospitality seriously. They have to do something.

Paul Cohalan: What's the number one challenge, like, for everyone? And there's no solution at the moment.

Simone Sichel: Now, one of the biggest. One that people don't understand is GST.

Paul Cohalan: Is it really?

Simone Sichel: If you consider that hospitality is, for us, is a cost. So for anyone, any other industry in the world is not a cost, is an exchange. So you pay gst, you get gst. So it doesn't really count, in a way.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah. Just carried.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, just carried.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: We have an industry that is structured in a way that the producer sells the raw materials.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Wholesale, free of gst. Then we are the last of the chain. So we are the one that sell to the public. When you sell to the public, you need to sell with gst.

Paul Cohalan: But it's the end result. It's the retail. It's the full.

Simone Sichel: Yes. Only the retail has to sell with gst. So what does it mean is all the stuff that we buy, it's free of GST and we sell and we have to pay GST. The $6 coffee that you pay, it's a $5.40 because we pay the GST. But the $35 a kilo coffee that we pay, it doesn't have GST.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So we never offload GST. We working in this GST bubble that. So that's attached that another 10% to everything else.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Because that'll make a difference.

Simone Sichel: An incredible difference is like if you consider that 100% sure what we do, and I'm talking with people that they do this for a long time as well. So they. We all on the same margins and percentage. So if you don't sell alcohol at the moment, and if you're doing table service, you're working around 5 to 6% margins.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Imagine if they give us the 10% to play with.

Paul Cohalan: That'd be game changing.

Simone Sichel: It's a game changer. It's a complete game changer in a way that 6%, it's not sustainable. It's just not sustainable because you know that in a business, 6% is not a sustainable long term profit.

Paul Cohalan: No room for error there.

Simone Sichel: And on top of this there is no cash flow. Now they introduced the Superannuation weekly.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. It's just, they can't carry it.

Simone Sichel: It's just like they making it very difficult in a way that is as you said, if you're moving $5 million of revenue and if you're moving $5 million of Revenue a year, you're carrying a lot of risks.

Paul Cohalan: Mm.

Simone Sichel: You're carrying a lot of employees, you're carrying a lot of risk.

Paul Cohalan: No room for error. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: It's not possible that you need to say you need to make 500,000 because on top of that you need to pay tax out of it. So if you move $5 million with all the risk and things attached to move $5 million and then you're making 150,000 and then you have to pay 42% out of it. I'm going to work for Crown.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: I'm working 35 hours, I got a phone, I got a car, speak four languages, I make more money and I got no responsibility. At 2pm I click, I'm going home.

Paul Cohalan: And look, I say this about most businesses, you can earn good money along the way. But what's the exit on cafe? Not just yours. I don't know the ins and outs but like what's exits like on? They must be hard. You have to be good. Not an everyday cafe.

Simone Sichel: That's another thing. It's like five years, six years ago there was a market, was there, it was a better market.

Paul Cohalan: Is it the big boys swamping them up or. Yes.

Simone Sichel: It's just like because there is so much offers because there's so many places around, there is so many places are losing money and they selling for nothing. That is like the exit that was before. Like, okay, I'm not making a lot of money now but I'm building up when I want to retire or I want to get out of it. I know that I'm going to make X amount of money because I'm going to sell for a good price now. It doesn't exist that anymore. So you don't get the good exit either. Because the problem is, okay, I'm selling the cafe for half million dollars. All right, half million dollars. Unfortunately with the, in the world that we live in, it doesn't going to let me not work anymore.

Paul Cohalan: No, no, they're trying. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So I'm only good to be hospitality. So with that 500,000, I need to open another place. Yeah, they're not going to be even enough to open another place with the cost of builders and fit outs and all that.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: So before maybe you were making 1.5, you put 500,000 on the side that you work 10 years for it and with another million you can invest it in a new one and you can start again.

Paul Cohalan: So nearly Cafes. I'm just taking from what you're saying. Like I know a couple of others, we actually insure one of the groups and they're pretty good, but they're a different model. Again, Cafe is nearly like a retirement thing. You find a good lease, it's maybe already fitted out, so you're not outlaying capital. Your own operator, you want to take home your 150. Yeah, whatever. And it's more of a departure lounge thing than it is, you know what I mean? But you're still in hospitality, which is hard work. But you could cap it then at least to what you want in flexibility. Right, yeah, that's.

Simone Sichel: And, but now there was probably 10 to 15 years ago something that could.

Paul Cohalan: Work even now you don't recognize.

Simone Sichel: Now the problem is that with the 6% margin, if this week rains, you're done.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: In a way that you lose five grand this week.

Paul Cohalan: Like that much cash over these days?

Simone Sichel: No, zero cash.

Paul Cohalan: Zero cash. Not for any reason. Just saying. Just question. Curious.

Simone Sichel: Oh, look, what was 20 years ago,.

Paul Cohalan: That would have been what kept things moving.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, absolutely.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: That's what it is. Reality or not? Not. Not Hiding behind the finger. There was a massive. There's no tips anymore.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: And you know, small things people don't realize. But $2 tips? Yeah. Okay, right. If I have 500 people, $2 tips, it's thousand dollars a day.

Paul Cohalan: So is a couple of questions for you about coffee because you're. You'd be my go to. Are they the best margin in the cafe? Are they better than the. Are they good margins? I remember you telling me one day.

Simone Sichel: You were saying something about percentage wise, they are the best margins.

Paul Cohalan: They carry a bit of it.

Simone Sichel: But the problem is that they're not the margins that they were 10 years ago.

Paul Cohalan: Now, is it because of the 25 different milks?

Simone Sichel: It's for a lot of things. First of all, cost of coffee, there's.

Paul Cohalan: Skits about it and everything. Now it's like me. The type of coffee is the milk. Talk to me about that. Like, how's that evolved over time?

Simone Sichel: I remember that literally, like the first time back at flat white. Oh my God, there was 85% of what were doing 10 years ago was a large flat white.

Paul Cohalan: That's it. Large, flat white.

Simone Sichel: You got a large flow.

Paul Cohalan: Can I even spell it?

Simone Sichel: Just like, just large for white. And. And sometimes people, they were watching you, like, you know, like, feel guilty. They were feeling guilty. It's like, can I have a soy flat white?

Paul Cohalan: And they're stepping on it. Yes.

Simone Sichel: I'm literally like, you what they watching you? Like, are they sorry for it? Yeah, because it's like maybe they lactose into.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: Not, not a problem.

Paul Cohalan: They feel out of place.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. If it's like this, fine, no problem.

Paul Cohalan: What else was there back then?

Simone Sichel: So working with.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, flat white back then.

Simone Sichel: FL white cappuccino soy. There was soy. There was.

Paul Cohalan: The alternative was soy almonds.

Simone Sichel: Ten, 15 years ago, there was no almond. There was the only soy. There was skinny milk.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, yeah, skinny.

Simone Sichel: But I'm telling you, I was working in Floreat, 47km street then. We were pumping at that time. I was a barista there. And it was just full cream milk. And were moving because as you said, like, if you're doing one thing, the waiting time is nothing. Because I know that if I got the line on the teal, you could punch out.

Paul Cohalan: I never thought about that. You can jump ahead because you know they're going to go, well, If I.

Simone Sichel: Got 20 people waiting, I know that they're going to be flat whites. So if I'm making 15 flat white, I'm ahead of the curve. But now it's just impossible.

Paul Cohalan: We nearly need the cows to fucking punch it out way back then. Fucking how many? Imagine how many is there now. How many different.

Simone Sichel: Oh, my God, man. Sometimes were laughing. We laughing because we have to work in two people on a coffee.

Paul Cohalan: Honestly, I just think now that you're talking, what about the space is everything right? Everything you do for efficiency, how much space you need for the different meals?

Simone Sichel: Yeah, I'm telling you before. Oh, I'm telling you, it's like we are working now with three different sizes. I'm talking about just take away. Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, you meant.

Simone Sichel: Dining on the side. Yeah, we have to deal with that as well.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: You got three different sizes. Take away. We have four, five, six different milks. Six different milks and eight different, let's say, style coffee they say six then you've got another couple but normal six different kind of coffee that required different preparation. So it's actually required different things to do. These people that they don't realize this is like they people ordering five coffees and they got five different type of coffee with five different milks. I got two hands. We have, we have four hands between me and the other girl and the person that works with me and the machine is one.

Paul Cohalan: And then what's the solution to it? So that must have changed the game for the cost of the coffee.

Simone Sichel: Have you heard, did you heard that there is a business that they open in London? I'm pretty sure, yeah. It was like flat white of.

Paul Cohalan: I did hear this. And they kill it.

Simone Sichel: They just work because people now everybody's time like time is so precious. Yeah. But then on the flip side they want it as fast as possible, as good as possible. They don't want to wait. Pricks on me and it just doesn't work. It's just impossible.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: So it's just day three, they can't work.

Paul Cohalan: I didn't even think about the milk.

Simone Sichel: Things just before they can work together and it's like but I order a flat white.

Paul Cohalan: Yes.

Simone Sichel: Okay, you order a flat white. But the six dockets or the six orders that I have before you. Yeah, they take me 20 minutes and.

Paul Cohalan: The SMS because that's what I usually do.

Simone Sichel: Even that is as you said like we try to be that. That's my challenge. That's biggest challenge everyone. And yeah, the biggest challenge is keep the time under 15 minutes. So that's what we try to do. Always achieving less than 15.

Paul Cohalan: I was going to ask you that the whole.

Simone Sichel: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: Is that, is that for a group of drinks or one drink or just in general?

Simone Sichel: That's general for when you order. Yeah. So when you actually pay 15, it's 15 top.

Paul Cohalan: That is quicker than that though.

Simone Sichel: But that is like when peak hour suddenly different milk.

Paul Cohalan: Sunday morning. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: And I have people that they disillusion. They completely disillusional. And I'm after 27 years we all laughing together. Yeah. With all people laughing. They're working with us and yeah. I'm just telling people with a smile and it's like man, there was once a couple of weeks ago it was like Saturday morning, literally 10:30 in the morning. Oh, you can't get a picker time than that.

Paul Cohalan: No. I come down and walk straight back out.

Simone Sichel: It's just like it is what it is and if you're surrounded. If you like. If you buy yourself in a cafe, I understand. And I'm. The first one is like, make my coffee. I'm by myself.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: Don't let me wait 10 minutes. And then we never do, you know, we try to be as fast as possible.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: But if you're coming in a place and there is 300 people around you, they all waiting for the same things that you're waiting.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: They're not there because they like my hang out.

Paul Cohalan: Clearly not talk to Simone.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. So it means that if you arrive and there is already 300 people, it means that there is at least 301 coffee before yours.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: And they were staring on you, literally staring. And it was like sometimes laughing. And as you said, now I'm comfortable as well. Yeah. They laugh with people.

Paul Cohalan: You know it.

Simone Sichel: And it's like, man, you need to give me 10 minutes. Yeah, but you need to give me 10 minutes. And I thought this person is like, but it's already five minutes. As I'm waiting. He's like, man, I need another 10. But it's like, it's Saturday morning, it's 10 o' clock in the morning. You couldn't pick a. I'm. I'm working as best as we can. Yeah, you are not working.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So just 10 minutes. Yeah, it's just relax.

Paul Cohalan: It's out of your control.

Simone Sichel: It's just relax. Don't ruin your day.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Because that's what it does. That's what people need to understand is like we doing our best for everyone.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Because it's how you walk out of there as well.

Simone Sichel: That's the thing. It's like you need to understand that you know the center of the universe.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So it's like you are extremely important for others.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: But you are extremely important as the one next to you.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Correct.

Simone Sichel: And that is the best things.

Paul Cohalan: And you guys do a big job of that. And I tell you, I seen it this morning, right. I don't know his name. I always forget young guy in there, he. He's, he's wicked. He's. And he obviously knows me and I walk in there, he always like, goes a bit over and beyond every time. And he even said it to one of the young ladies that doesn't know me this morning. He's like, hey, when he comes, sits over there at that table, he's like, come in. And he goes, long Mac. I'm like, boom. And then you'll go, another One I'm like, yep. But he just has that. You know what I mean?

Simone Sichel: But it makes you like we're trying to. To establish this with all our. All the people that. Working with us.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: And it's like you have to work because you need to pay the rent.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Or the mortgage.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Okay. So put this in the first priority things. You're not here for a choice. You're here because you need to work. You need to stay with us eight hours. Eight, seven.

Paul Cohalan: Are you talking about your workers coming.

Simone Sichel: On whatever it is.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: You can be miserable and basically ruin your day.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: Or you can be happy and your day is going to better and.

Paul Cohalan: So is everyone else's.

Simone Sichel: The customers are happy. You have a. The customer is going to be much happier with you. You're going to have starting relationship with the customer that are coming every day. You have chats. You're going to learn. You're going to. Because the most important things is you still need to be here eight hours.

Paul Cohalan: Do you know what I take out of that as the key on the other side? Because I'm pretty fussy with stuff and time's everything. But also the opposite is when I want to relax or do work or whatever. The key out of that, I think is that build that rapport piece with that client. And then. And it's like, even in my game, if you've got a really good relationship with the client and we all. We're all human. I go on. So say I don't get a cert or I didn't get an email back or something like that. It's okay. Because most, you know, all the time, you're like proactively on it. We're human, though. It's the same. Same with you guys. If one of your guys, like, they'll come up to me. They know I'm busy unless I'm sitting down and I'll be like, hey, sorry. And I'll be like, cool, no worries. Because like this morning, walk in young. Any young guy as well. Like usually they're usually amber and that. But the young guys are picking it up. That's amazing. You don't get that often in. In hospitality. Some. Some of the young ones to bend over backwards, you know, hey, come through.

Simone Sichel: Look, it's. That's hospitality. It's.

Paul Cohalan: It's so good.

Simone Sichel: As you said, like the biggest things that customers starting to learn. I'm a big supporter of explaining our point of view.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So the artists.

Paul Cohalan: I've heard it sounds. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Because there's the things it's like imagine, as I said, let's call a Saturday morning for us, that is on honest normal. Saturday morning, we're cooking 250 full in between breakfast and brunch.

Paul Cohalan: Right?

Simone Sichel: Let's say that. Okay. So from the kitchen, from our three.

Paul Cohalan: Shifts, 250 meals around.

Simone Sichel: 250 Meals full.

Paul Cohalan: Leave 500 coffees.

Simone Sichel: Leave everything else on the side.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So let's put it like down to numbers, because people like stats and all that, Right. So in any business, any kind of business, if you have an 85 to 90% success rate, everyone will be ecstatic. Every kind of business.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: If you sit down the board, it doesn't matter where, it doesn't matter which business. If you get result of 85 to 90%, you're going to get bonuses, you're going to get all that sort of stuff. Now flip this. In our industry, Saturday morning, we did 250breakfast. If we do a 90% success rate, it means that we still it up 25breakfast.

Paul Cohalan: Never thought about it like that. That's even at 90%.

Simone Sichel: If I it up 25 breakfast in a Saturday morning, I'm going to go broke in three weeks.

Paul Cohalan: You got to be bang on. Yeah. And you want to hope the 25 people that you got a good relationship with.

Simone Sichel: Let's say that normally now we work around 98.9 to 99% success rate.

Paul Cohalan: A couple of meals.

Simone Sichel: That is insane. Yeah, it is really. It is realistically not sustainable. But still it's gonna be at least two people that we're gonna it up.

Paul Cohalan: And not gonna be happy or whatever.

Simone Sichel: But that's the point. These two people needs to understand.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: We are human.

Paul Cohalan: Yep. Yeah. Correct.

Simone Sichel: Don't take it personally.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Because you're not the center of the universe. You are part of this hundred percent. Unfortunately. Unfortunately this morning.

Paul Cohalan: Sorry.

Simone Sichel: And was your time to be the 0.2% of the mistake. And if you instead to be upset and taken personally, you just tell us. It's like simultaneous or Lyle or Amber, I think you up my breakfast.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: We going to come to you. And he's like, we did. I'm sorry.

Paul Cohalan: And that's the key. Right.

Simone Sichel: We did the repair. That's it.

Paul Cohalan: We did. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: You order me, I don't know, whatever. Waffle with poached eggs. And I give you pancakes with scrambled eggs.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah, whatever.

Simone Sichel: It is full.

Paul Cohalan: Total opposite. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Instead to be upset, keep it inside you going home and basically ruining your day.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Because it's the start of the day.

Simone Sichel: That's what it's you completely ruining your day, your relationship, your conversation. You're ruining your day. Yeah. Smile and you say sim is like mate, give me two minutes.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: I'll fix it.

Paul Cohalan: Yep. Game changing. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Yeah done. You not going to ruining your day. You going to get what you ask. We will fix the issue that unfortunately it happens.

Paul Cohalan: A human it happens.

Simone Sichel: Everything's is forgotten. Forget whatever you say. Forgotten and we all move on in a better mood. That's the things it's like people needs to. That's the key. People needs to understand that everybody is important in as equal as the other one.

Paul Cohalan: And going back to what I was saying before if I was you and you know this to de risk that because if you got that five minute coffee guy he's gonna be that same guy when he has a shit meal. But you're gonna always get that one person out of a thousand. But the other piece is like I said like your team like that young guy comes up and there's a up meal. I'll be. Hey. Hey man. This morning it's up. I ate their heaps.

Simone Sichel: It's happened.

Paul Cohalan: They're one to me and so but that makes a difference too. If you weren't like that normally and it happens. It's just like transactional that changes the game. Right. It goes back to the experience piece whether it's the coffee or the meal. So important.

Simone Sichel: We're trying to train and to teach get to explain to all our stuff.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Accept a mistake.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. You know who else is good? I'll just change subject quickly and then I want to ask you a couple of questions. Is someday coffee they do really well.

Simone Sichel: They do well.

Paul Cohalan: They're not just a cookie cutter transactional. That's my jaw actually I've never spoken about it before and after. No serious. I had a big jaw operation.

Simone Sichel: Oh okay.

Paul Cohalan: Like seven hours like three years ago. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Nice.

Paul Cohalan: And that's the before and after someday coffees. They're not transactional. You know they've got their own little style niche. They do wicked breakfast as well. When I used to go to a gym over there I'd go there on the way home. They're unreal. They take pride in it.

Simone Sichel: They are very good.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: They different market.

Paul Cohalan: Totally different.

Simone Sichel: Completely different market. They're attacking a market that is completely different what we do. And as I said they doing good, right? What they do.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: But as we said before. Get your. Get your thing.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Do it.

Paul Cohalan: Hit your thing and go harder with pride.

Simone Sichel: Do it as best as you can. Don't pretend to do a little bit of everything.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: The little bit of everything is too.

Paul Cohalan: Much on the menu. Number one.

Simone Sichel: It's gonna fall into average.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: It's normal. Is we are human. Yep.

Paul Cohalan: All right. Your favorite coffee.

Simone Sichel: So I would love what you go to. I opened Innaloo 10 years ago.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: And I was culling coffee. Like, no tomorrow. Yeah. Then after a couple of years, I have a massive panic attack.

Paul Cohalan: Did you?

Simone Sichel: Yeah. Like proper.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. You're doing it to keep going. Probably.

Simone Sichel: I didn't understand why.

Paul Cohalan: So 100 coffees a day.

Simone Sichel: Panic. Literally. Like, I never experienced something like that. It was like proper scary. Yeah. It's like I'm gonna die. Went to the doctors. Like, what's happening? Doing exams. Everything seems to be fine. Yeah. And a random. Not even a friend. It's just a person that you're talking with. So how many coffee do you drink a day? And it was like, you know, like someone that is punching you in the face with the truth.

Paul Cohalan: Yep. Just hit you with a baseball bat.

Simone Sichel: And I was like, man, it was like I was thinking Lomax at that time.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: And I like seven, eight, nine a day. So it's two shots each. I was eating like 20 shots a day.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. And every day consistent. You wouldn't have even known. You just would have been just going. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Young. Not young anymore, but 15 years ago. Much younger than now.

Paul Cohalan: So football, everything was about keeping the business going.

Simone Sichel: It was just like going, going. And so from that time, I turned into a latte man. So one shot at least. I can get three. Because I need to drink latte. Yeah. I need to drink it. I'm a latte man. I became a latte man.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: I was a stronger coffee man. And I had to go down in a weak side.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: So that's.

Paul Cohalan: So tell me. And I think I know the answer to this. Not a lot of people do. What's a long Mac? Long macchiato.

Simone Sichel: It's in Australia. In Australia, it's different. So you in WA. If you ask a long Mac, it's basically a double shot lot.

Paul Cohalan: And macchiato means stain of milk. Right?

Simone Sichel: Macchiato. Macchiato in Italian, it's the stain.

Paul Cohalan: Yes.

Simone Sichel: So this one, it's a macchiat. Okay. Macchiato is your carpet is macchiato.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So your carpet is stained.

Paul Cohalan: Yep. Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: Right. Long is lungo. Lungo is long means literally, like so long macchiato in theory, if you want a full translation, is long stained.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: I read that a Long time ago.

Simone Sichel: Doesn't make any sense.

Paul Cohalan: So is it. Is it double espresso with the stain.

Simone Sichel: Of milk until you ask the top in east. On east coast, if you ask a lone Mac, they give you double shot with a little bit of froth on top. If you ask a lon Mac, if you want what we drink here as a lomac, you need to ask a lomec top tub.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: But the reality is that they don't even do it. They asked. They call it latte double shot. Yeah, latte double shot on the other side.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So east coast, Perth, long Mac top or long mech by default. Yeah, it's realistically a lot of double shot.

Paul Cohalan: It is in. That's where I was going with this because I can't remember who told me. Someone told me not long ago. It's basically the same thing.

Simone Sichel: So. Sean, because it's like, if you think about it, the shore mat, that is basically an espresso with a little froth. It makes sense. If you think about it, that short Mac is one shot with a bit of froth. The long Mac, it's double shot with a bit more froth. Yeah, that makes sense.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: So that's where the word actually came from.

Paul Cohalan: And then top up. If you say top up. Yeah. Is that just an Aussie thing?

Simone Sichel: It's an Aussie.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, is it? Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: It's everything.

Paul Cohalan: I actually love dirty chai, but I try not to have them unless I'm not on the balance of my sugar because I'm type 2 diabetic.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, it's pretty hungry.

Paul Cohalan: I love dirty chai extra shot coffee.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, that's, that's a. That's a good punch in your face.

Paul Cohalan: When I'm having that, it's usually I feel a bit hungover or something like that. I'm like, I'll get a dirty chai. It.

Simone Sichel: It's gonna get you a go.

Paul Cohalan: It won't outweigh the. Probably the drinks I had got like.

Simone Sichel: Three shots of coffee and yeah. Double shot of sugar, basically. So it's gonna hit you up as well.

Paul Cohalan: What is it? Hot chocolate in it?

Simone Sichel: There is a, there's a chai syrup that is.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, it's a chai syrup. Oh, yeah. Dirty try. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Basically sugar. So you got like a lot of caffeine, a lot of sugar. That's gonna, that's gonna give you a good hit.

Paul Cohalan: What temperature should a coffee be?

Simone Sichel: That's a big call, man.

Paul Cohalan: Is there a set one? Is there a Standard. Is there a. Or what do you prefer?

Simone Sichel: No, you can talk with the purist.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: They're gonna give you a temperature. But I guarantee that the purists, they don't own any business.

Paul Cohalan: Takes too long.

Simone Sichel: No, I'm doing the one that the market wants.

Paul Cohalan: The market drives everything.

Simone Sichel: That's what I try to explain and try to pass to everyone. It doesn't matter if the person in front of you wants a extra, extra hot four sugar flat white. What it matters is you need to do it as best as you can. That extra, extra hot flat white with four sugars. So that guy's come back tomorrow, buy another one.

Paul Cohalan: Not what the traditional.

Simone Sichel: I don't care.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: And that's super.

Paul Cohalan: So what's standard? Like say, because not, not everyone asks for.

Simone Sichel: Look, I probably.

Paul Cohalan: How many people ask for their temperature?

Simone Sichel: A lot of people now asking extra hot.

Paul Cohalan: Are they.

Simone Sichel: They want it hot.

Paul Cohalan: I had one the other day. I only burnt myself and I'm like, I'm the other way.

Simone Sichel: Burning hot. That's why I don't like it hot.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: And when I going around, I ask it warm. So warm is probably around 60.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: Standard now. I would say 68, 70.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: That's if you don't ask anything and.

Paul Cohalan: Then if extra hot, you could be.

Simone Sichel: Popping out that 75. 78.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Simone Sichel: But that's the biggest concept is just do it exactly as they.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, as they want.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. It's just like I pay for it.

Paul Cohalan: You've already got 8 milks. You might as well add a temperature to it. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: There's a lot of people. Not anymore, but there was a little bit of a. After Covid, I feel like that there was few cafes that they were few baristas in particular that they were getting like personal on their coffee. On making it. Is the proud of making coffee. It's like proud to be a chef and all that sort of stuff.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: But you still need in the service industry.

Paul Cohalan: That's the answer market.

Simone Sichel: That's your answer.

Paul Cohalan: What's my money?

Simone Sichel: My chefs, all the chefs, they're working with us and George, and it's like, I know. And we want you to be proud of what you're doing, what you're putting in a plate for the customers. And they will appreciate it. But if someone wants a well done steak, just cook a well done steak.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Even though make him happy.

Simone Sichel: He will be happy. He will come back, he will bring friends. Yeah, you're gonna get paid.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: You're gonna get bonuses and it's all the. All the circle is gonna move.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Why you should be. Advices are accepted if asked. If asked.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: If I ask as a customer. If I ask as a customer is like, I like to eat these steaks. Can you ask the chef which is the best way to do it? Happy days.

Paul Cohalan: Probably not well done, but whatever it is.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, but if I. It's like, can I have this steak well done?

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: But our chef would prefer is like, amas. I know what it is. I know exactly what the ideal in this world. Everybody say that is the best way to eat it. Yeah. But this is how I like it. And this is how I wanna. Because the bill is gonna come from my pocket.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Correct.

Simone Sichel: Happy days.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. This is why I like it.

Simone Sichel: Make it perfect.

Paul Cohalan: Enjoy my coffees. Yeah. George can't make coffee.

Simone Sichel: It cooks better. He cooks better.

Paul Cohalan: Unbelievable. Cook.

Simone Sichel: I can cook a little bit.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: And he can make.

Paul Cohalan: He's got the balance.

Simone Sichel: He makes a coffee a little bit.

Paul Cohalan: I'll tell him that tomorrow morning. I'll go, I heard you can't make coffee. You can cook.

Simone Sichel: You can cook.

Paul Cohalan: He's amazing cooking.

Simone Sichel: His wife is a weapon. His team is like. That's another thing that I always like. He attracts people with talent.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Do I know why? Not really, no. It's just like, you're going in Avalon. Do you see the team that is literally working in a kitchen? It's seven, eight, nine people in the kitchen. Avalon, pastry chefs, sous chefs. And there's like, they all very talented.

Paul Cohalan: And they love working for him.

Simone Sichel: Properly talented. Yeah. And they just came out nowhere, like. Indeed. Advertisement. Facebook ads.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: That sort of things.

Paul Cohalan: He just does.

Simone Sichel: He just does.

Paul Cohalan: Knows how to pick them as well.

Simone Sichel: He just does. There's a guy, there's a girl that is a French patissier. Oh, my God, man. She is something else.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: The desserts are coming out.

Paul Cohalan: Unbelievable.

Simone Sichel: Insane.

Paul Cohalan: How much has the food and everything changed the last 12 months?

Simone Sichel: We changed menu in Avalon. George changed menu in Avalon every two months.

Paul Cohalan: Does he have to come? I haven't been for probably eight months.

Simone Sichel: I reckon he's just like every. Not even a season now. Before, he was like aiming to get a season change. Now he's doing like mid season change. It's just like winter, for example. We had two changes with produce.

Paul Cohalan: Is most of it wa like local. They must spend a lot of time on that to get at that.

Simone Sichel: That's another things that you need to understand that. That it's the things that you can market.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: But if you use local and seasonal they are the cheapest that you can.

Paul Cohalan: Find because it's in.

Simone Sichel: In because it's in season.

Paul Cohalan: It's present in season.

Simone Sichel: In season.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: They close to you. So the product is good if you know how to pick it. Of course. Because it's always get no good product. But you know if you want to have a tomato in middle of winter it's going to cost you more. The tomato in full of summer. And if you want an eggplant in middle summer. Yep. Or a pumpkin is going to cost you more.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Than what's going to cost you and probably is coming from whatever it is. California.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: And if you. If something is coming from California it's just clearly that is going to cost you a fortune because it's. You know where California is.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: Someone needs to carry here. So it's actually play smart as well in a way that is you need to be in. In Cost control is one of the biggest now that we're working so much tight that the cost control product cost control is just. And George is just ridiculous.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: No. I found another supplier that we can save a dollar a kilo over here and they bet the product is better. And then I gotta find another one. It never stops. I don't know how.

Paul Cohalan: You know, I was talking to it just it resonated with me. I was talking to the owner. I think his name's Dave. A while ago, 12 months ago, longer at Sushi Wawa. I love Sushi Wall. My kids love it.

Simone Sichel: They are machine.

Paul Cohalan: And I said to him, I said mate, this is one of the best franchise. You just look at it. It looks like a franchise thing. Right. Where they could be everywhere he goes. The problem is because our food and our produce is so high quality. Like it's good when it's going well but when it dies down, the margins like if you had franchises you'd F them up basically because of the margins, because of the quality and what they do. Like the food's amazing like for seafood.

Simone Sichel: Oh I've been there a million times.

Paul Cohalan: It's unreal.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. But as you said and this guy said, very clever. It's just when you. When you're not there checking.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. So having a franchise you're starting to let that. You know the best thing they got yuzu ice cream. His wife used to make it and when I was talking to him back then, he said that we've only just started making it like in the kitchen. He says, my wife used to make it because he used to run out all the time. I'm like, what's going on? Because my wife made it. It's the best ice cream. Yuzu ice cream.

Simone Sichel: It's the wife. It's the first, the love.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. It's hard to beat that stuff, isn't it?

Simone Sichel: That's why we will. We had like a few years ago, we've been approached to. To get a franchise to, like to make our brand franchisable.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: And were talking. We would like valuing this and that and it's just like. It's just not what we want to be.

Paul Cohalan: No. Well, your biggest challenge and everything that you've told me over time and then repeat again today is the whole where hospitality is at the moment. So how the do you keep your finger in your. On the pulse when you know what I mean? Like, you might have the best people and passionate. But once again, franchise a lot of time don't have experience because they want you to give them the cookie cuts. That's half the reason of it. Right.

Simone Sichel: I don't think that it's an industry that at the moment can be franchisable anymore. Yeah. If you want quality, you might get.

Paul Cohalan: Like your centuros and that in hospitality, but not. Yeah, just your coffee shop.

Simone Sichel: Absolutely.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: I was speaking with the customers the other day, that day on, I'm pretty sure, six McDonald's.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, wow.

Simone Sichel: And it's. It's a very good investment.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Friend of mine's dad used to own them years and years ago. 20 Years ago.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. Because it's like they. They making the coke, I think, is.

Paul Cohalan: The biggest margin it was back then.

Simone Sichel: They making decent amount of money at the end of the year.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: But you really need to treat that as a business. We are hospitality people. As you say, in the future, in your journey, then you're going to interview a lot of hospitality people and chefs. Hospitality people are not business people.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Because I'm telling you, it's a love for food. It's just an hospitality mindset. We're just born with an hospitality mindset and that's what makes us happy. Because if I bring my numbers to any kind of business people, they will tell me you're nuts.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: Anyone?

Paul Cohalan: Awesome one.

Simone Sichel: Anyone?

Paul Cohalan: Let's. Let's touch on the warehouse model. I love that. And so, yeah, that's been. You've taught me a little bit about that over the time. We've chatted about it a fair bit.

Simone Sichel: And it's so six Seven, probably eight, nine years ago now. We had Innaloo small, tight and were making everything ourselves.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: So all our cabinet was made by ourself. One day a friend of. Not even a friend, a person came in and he's like, I'm opening a cafe. We don't have a kitchen. We love your food. What do you think if you baking sandwiches for us as well? I was like, look, we're doing for ourselves, doing a little bit more. It's a good stream of revenue. It doesn't really, you know.

Paul Cohalan: And you know, it was small so it made sense.

Simone Sichel: Our dish like small, like 38 meter square. So very tight. I was like, yeah, okay, no problem. So we start to make sandwich for this new cafe that it was very successful as well. So it was ordering quite a big amount then were struggling at the beginning to keep up because space and all that sort of things. But were doing it another. After three or four months, another one came in and he said I'm a friend of that guy and I have a venue already open and I love what you're doing for him. Can you do it for us as well? I was like, wait a second. At that time, Innaloo for who have been there. Innaloo was in a strip where there was like shops back to back. And at that time, that particular time next to us it was an empty shop. So went, they were same our landlord. So the owner of the Wall Street.

Paul Cohalan: I remember. Yeah, yeah, it goes through the wall.

Simone Sichel: So we went to talk with our landlord and we say can you rent that space to us as well? So yeah, no problem. So we took over. We made a little bit of extra chairs with extra space to sit down because at the end of the day we didn't expect that we need so much space. And we put like a sort of a back where were making sandwiches for these two or three places at that time. So fast forward now six years after we have two warehouses in Osborne Park and we serving probably we do fresh every day. So what does it mean? We start in the morning early first shift chefs cooking. All the product cut off orders is 1:30pm so every cafe after the next day. Yeah. So every cafe send us an order for what they need for Tomorrow morning before 1:30pm Today we choose 1:30 because our experience in cafe industry is a good time because it's after lunch.

Paul Cohalan: History says it.

Simone Sichel: So pretty much you know, yeah, what you're gonna need for tomorrow. So they sending us these orders. I reconcile all the Orders in a big reconciliation sheet. The first round of chef goes on. The second round of chefs arrive at two. So the one that they arrives at two, they are. We call them the builders. So they have to cut all the breads, bagels, bread, because we don't buy anything.

Paul Cohalan: I'd love to. Show me, show me this one day, man. That'd be awesome.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. So we don't buy any bread already cut. So we have small bakery that bake for us exactly as George wants.

Paul Cohalan: They want. Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: So we don't use big bakeries, old, small bakeries. But if you buy sliced bread get drier earlier when we got this reconciliation sheet, that is probably. We have 65 items in our list in between citrus sweet and savories. So they. The chef knows how many things they have to prepare in the afternoon. So they make all that sandwiches that it could be 150 breakfast bagel, 200 breakfast wrap, chicken and avocado bagel, 50 veggie bagels, 60. That's all through the list.

Paul Cohalan: Wow.

Simone Sichel: Eight o'. Clock. Normally they leaving every time the shift finish, they clean everything and the pack is coming in. So three kitchen hands, they're coming in. And they have now in their hands every single order for every single cafe.

Paul Cohalan: And you were saying earlier about 20 a day?

Simone Sichel: Hey, yeah, roughly, probably between 20, between 15 to 25.

Paul Cohalan: It depends the day, depending on the day.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. Because we operate in seven days a week, 365, is that right? Yeah, yeah.

Paul Cohalan: So, yeah, it depends on that cafe, if it's open.

Simone Sichel: Depends if the cafe is opening. There's cafes that they're very busy. They order every day. There's cafes that they order day in, day out. There's cafes, they order three times a week. There's order, there's people that they Monday to Friday operation and Saturday, Sunday close. So there's all different needs outside. And yeah, they packing the orders. They put everything in crates upside down, ordered in trolleys in the order.

Paul Cohalan: So it's consecutive in order.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, in order of drop off.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: So at 2 o', clock, the delivery drivers, our delivery drivers arrive with the van. We got the van, the big refrigerated van. He park in front of the roller door outside the cool room. He get everything's out. You don't want to think at 2:30 in the morning. So what he does, he literally just take from the top and he put it in because he knows that the first one is the last one that he goes out normally half an hour, the van is full, he Put the first, he knows all the addresses now. He got all the list of the drop off.

Paul Cohalan: Any starts, what just from a geographically point.

Simone Sichel: How far we're going, Coogee?

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: We going in East Victoria Park.

Paul Cohalan: So Coogee to East Victoria Park and.

Simone Sichel: We're going in Two Rocks.

Paul Cohalan: Two rocks, yeah.

Simone Sichel: So that we cover everywhere.

Paul Cohalan: Wow.

Simone Sichel: And we're doing a night because there's no traffic. So normally the delivery driver is back in the warehouse in osborne park at 7:30 latest. But why? Because if you're a cafe, you need to have the food before you open.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Set up.

Simone Sichel: If you're running, what's the point? To have some food to sell at 10 o' clock in the morning. Yep. Your rush is gone. So you need to have your muffin, your bagels, the stuff ready when people arriving in a cafe. 5:30, 6:00'. Clock, the first stuff, he take the food and he put it out. So when he opens the door, the food is ready to sell. We're doing 4,000 sandwiches a week in between bagel sandwiches and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, with 14, 15 people now full time in that business.

Paul Cohalan: Okay, so what's the end goal with that? You take on more. We expand more.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. So we did Desi said from the Innaloo venue.

Paul Cohalan: We were topped through it all kicked off.

Simone Sichel: We couldn't.

Paul Cohalan: Boom. Warehouse.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. So warehouse. Now we are in a situation where we are renting the warehouse and we probably are at 60% capacity where we are now.

Paul Cohalan: Ideally take on more.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, Ideally when I'm hitting 80% of the capacity, I will start to probably look into to buy a facility and make it perfect and more efficient.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. All in one instead of two. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Now it's much better than the first one, but there is still an incredible room for improvement. And as you said, like technology now is every year. Yeah. It's just crazy how fast it moves. Yeah. So in our industry as well, there is like machinery that they. Wow.

Paul Cohalan: Something I didn't ask you before.

Simone Sichel: Coffee beans, Brew coffee roaster Peter Barilla hands down the best in the market. What's called brew Coffee roaster. They are in Wangara. The owner is named Peter Barilla. He's a family business. Family run business is Ian and Alex, his son. They are incredible.

Paul Cohalan: Are they really? Yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: We're falling into the same concept as before. There's a lot of places around, a lot of rosters that they're doing an incredible quality coffee. Don't get me wrong.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: What they give to you is a family Service. And that makes a difference.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So if you pick up the phone, if I called Peter now, Peter has to make you understand. I call it family business, but he probably has 250 customers, so. Talking about volume, big. But I'm 100% sure if I call Peter now, he answered the phone. Simple. Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: Wow.

Simone Sichel: Simone, how can I help you?

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, unbelievable. Still nimble, still got the touch.

Simone Sichel: Makes.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: All the different in the world.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. All right, so we're gonna shift away from the hospitality piece. Something we've got in common. What, motorbikes?

Simone Sichel: Yep.

Paul Cohalan: You got one back home. One of the first thing we ever spoke about when we met.

Simone Sichel: I do have a limited edition Buell.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, it's a Buell. That's right.

Simone Sichel: Atom 1000cc.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: That unfortunately, I bought it just. Just before you come, before you came here.

Paul Cohalan: Spewing. So that sits there. How often do you go home, say mum and dad is Mum and Dad.

Simone Sichel: Mom and dad, yeah. Yeah. Mom and dad. Now with. With the older technologies, like every day.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah. Siblings?

Simone Sichel: No, just two.

Paul Cohalan: Yep, Yep.

Simone Sichel: Just me off the. My. Both of them, they've been married a couple of times.

Paul Cohalan: Okay.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. My dad now is three down, so he's still with the wife's. Lovely person.

Paul Cohalan: Are they. Are they in Milan? Are they.

Simone Sichel: They all in Milano? Yeah, yeah. We all from there. We all both originally from there. They both originate from there.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, yeah. Through and through 100.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. Grandpas, like grandparents. They were both from Milan. So, yeah, look, it's. It's been.

Paul Cohalan: I bet you don't get. Get back as much as you like, I'm guessing.

Simone Sichel: I would say that the last three years I tried to go twice a year before I was going once a year before again, it was probably once every two years.

Paul Cohalan: Have your parents come here?

Simone Sichel: My parents came here. My mom didn't come here yet. My father came here twice.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Simone Sichel: It's easier for me to go home than them to come here.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, of course. Of course.

Simone Sichel: They're not getting any younger.

Paul Cohalan: How old are you now?

Simone Sichel: I'm 42.

Paul Cohalan: We're only a year difference. I'm 43. And how old?

Simone Sichel: Yeah, 42. Yeah, just.

Paul Cohalan: You want to think that again? I do it all the time.

Simone Sichel: I was like, is it 20?

Paul Cohalan: What month are you?

Simone Sichel: I'm 4th of April.

Paul Cohalan: 4.

Simone Sichel: 4. 84.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, yeah. I'm 16-4-83.

Simone Sichel: So, yeah, so I'm 40.

Paul Cohalan: If you're 42, we're nearly bang on 12 months.

Simone Sichel: I'm 42.

Paul Cohalan: You are definitely 43. How old are your parents?

Simone Sichel: 76. My father this year in October and my mom 70. Just did 21. They reasonably healthy? They have a couple of hiccups like happened.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: They went through pretty well. So they got back in pretty quickly on. On their feet.

Paul Cohalan: What's your, what's Your biggest memory? 0 To 10. We didn't talk about childhood much. I usually do, but we obviously got down the road of coffee.

Simone Sichel: But look, babe. Parents were both very business driven. So my father has a mechanical business where they building machinery and all that. Back in the day, in the 90s, Italy was booming.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Full economy. It was a blast. So it was really time to get along with it. So they were both in the business. I've been. They've been incredible parents, don't get me wrong. Incredible parents. On a flip side, I've been a lot with my grandparents.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Yeah. But that was that generation that happened.

Simone Sichel: Because they work, work, work. Don't get me wrong. They were. All the time that they had, it was with me.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: But I had like, you know, school pickups and all that. They were pop. And then.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. So times. Timing. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So this is my two. My grandparents. The one that they basically raised me.

Paul Cohalan: Well, I was gonna ask about that. I kept buying it off. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, that's cool. So memories, you know, that young age, a lot of it was the grandparents, which they were actually. Wicked memories. I think everyone loves their memories, right? Wicked. And they love it because they done what probably your parents did with you. You know, they worked. So when they get their grandkids, they're always different. The grandkids always get spoiled.

Simone Sichel: I got like an incredible. I was very lucky. I was very lucky. I have to say that my family was medium high class.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So I've been. I, I never miss anything. Yeah. So I got everything. Yeah. I really, I really lived. We really lived a very good life when done.

Paul Cohalan: Six months, seasonals.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. Yeah. I, I like. I was a little bit of a shaky at the end of my teenaging era when they divorced and.

Paul Cohalan: Oh yeah, it was.

Simone Sichel: That became a little bit of a. You know, it's. It's an experience.

Paul Cohalan: You know what, it's probably good that you did because being European, being obviously you're probably spoiled a bit. You had a good life. You were the only. Oh, I mean, it's good that you went and done your own thing because it's very easy not to do that either when, you know, that was one.

Simone Sichel: Of the biggest things that I experienced to do it Was like if I stayed there, I was probably getting. I was probably becoming. And there was nothing wrong with that.

Paul Cohalan: No, no. Of course.

Simone Sichel: The sun of.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. And the comfort zone and the.

Simone Sichel: You know, it's always like in this little bubble of protection that is that your parents wants to give it to you. That is. I think that is absolutely.

Paul Cohalan: You didn't have that mindset. I can see that now. Like, you're like, you're all about doing. Working hard big time and achieving.

Simone Sichel: I want to try to do my. My thing.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: And I never been scared or scared of try things. Yeah. And that's cost me a lot.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, it does.

Simone Sichel: It's cost me a lot.

Paul Cohalan: Cost you more. If you don't get something to go, though. Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Sometimes I would.

Paul Cohalan: You double get question.

Simone Sichel: Sometimes I really would. Would prefer to like have a little bit more conservative mindset because it would have saved me a lot of trouble. A lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of mistakes. A lot of time. But the excitement when you do something.

Paul Cohalan: That you think that is cool and when something works.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. But I don't know. I don't get that. I get that. So for example, in my industry, the super excitement for me, it's when it's from the beginning of the idea to the open door. Then when I see that the. When I open door and I see that everything goes as I planned it, I have like a sort of a happy relief. But my adrenaline goes.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: Next looking for.

Paul Cohalan: Probably I'm being a bit the same as well.

Simone Sichel: And that's what were saying.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: That cost me.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Because you can't always succeed.

Paul Cohalan: No, you can't.

Simone Sichel: And it's like one goes well, one goes bad, one is a mistake. One. They were supposed to do that. Then it fall into the other side.

Paul Cohalan: But I think the key to that is learn. You do it and then you learn that, then you pull back a bit. Right. I've done that. I think you've done that. And it's like, let's focus on this. Because you do. You learn from your ups and your mistakes and your loss of money and time.

Simone Sichel: You hope so.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Trying to.

Paul Cohalan: So tell me something I don't know. I know you got a couple of your kids are your dogs.

Simone Sichel: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: I have two beautiful golden retrievers, Bruce and Bruno.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: Being in Subiaco is like 5 to 10 minutes from everything. This morning I woke up at 2. If I can fit a nap during the day, it will be really helpful. But if I have to drive 45 minutes to get Home.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: It's just not gonna happen.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: In like this. I can literally.

Paul Cohalan: I love it, being close.

Simone Sichel: Okay, I'm done here. I got two hours before the next gig start.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: So let's go home, get in bed, get a nap because it's like I'm not getting any younger and.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. So next time, what we'll have to do, we're going to do this podcast in the cafe. But both pretty busy, et cetera. It didn't happen. Next one, I try and do a recap or a check in. I've been calling it. So I've got this event coming up in November which hopefully everyone comes to and then try and do a check in later and it might be a bit shorter, but it'll come off the back of this. Just a lot of people don't bring it back on. But I'm trying to go to locations to break it up, change it, get the atmosphere. So we'll make sure next time that we.

Simone Sichel: We can sit down the oven and.

Paul Cohalan: Have a dinner and plan it a bit. Yeah. We do have a line we can do in the cafe. Whatever works. Yeah, it'd be good.

Simone Sichel: It's been a pleasure.

Paul Cohalan: 2. Two questions. One is who the do I get on here? Who comes to mind?

Simone Sichel: That I could hear.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. That I could push you to help me get on.

Simone Sichel: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: Anyone come to mind, stay away from.

Simone Sichel: My industry because that would be.

Paul Cohalan: Can be anyone.

Simone Sichel: That would be easy.

Paul Cohalan: Can be anyone. Anyone that you're close with in your life. That'd be good.

Simone Sichel: I'm. I'm getting into sports at the moment because I play football for 27 years now. Soccer. Sorry for you. Soccer.

Paul Cohalan: I'll tell you a cool story in.

Simone Sichel: A second actually, but I'm pretty sure that I can get you here. Maybe Wildcats.

Paul Cohalan: Oh yeah.

Simone Sichel: Like that.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: And getting completely out of everything. Get talk about sports and that sort of. Maybe a coach.

Paul Cohalan: Yep. I told Sam I was going to drag him on.

Simone Sichel: I don't know. Sam. Sam is going to be hard. But maybe I can get you John, the head coach.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, nice.

Simone Sichel: Nice would be nice. He's a lovely guy. He's a lovely guy.

Paul Cohalan: Is he?

Simone Sichel: Yeah. It's incredible.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Well, for that sort of. The sort of responsibility. Because to be the head coach of the Wildcats in Perth is an insane responsibility and exposure and. And you know, you are a personality. Really.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, of course.

Simone Sichel: He's such a good guy. Such a good guy.

Paul Cohalan: So I'll tell you, I'm going to hit you up about that. I'LL get my team to reach out.

Simone Sichel: Or I'll re.

Paul Cohalan: I'll chat with you, obviously, being downstairs. But you just rung something. You know, football. So I'm at the casino the other night. Just went back there with friends and someone that's a bit of a PR f. Bandit sits down with us and a few friends. And I'm sitting next to someone right here. And there's another lady with us, Jaz. She's a cool chick. Real estate. We both look at each other. I'm like, do these guys even realize who this is? It was Timmy Cahill. Sat there with him. Even went back upstairs.

Simone Sichel: Like a nice guy.

Paul Cohalan: Legend. Sat there, chatted with him. He's been retired seven years. Got a photo with him, all that stuff.

Simone Sichel: Which I'll show the bo.

Paul Cohalan: You know, I actually. I didn't even think I should have got something written for Hunter, but, man, it was unreal. I'm like, these guys, do you know, this isn't. They're like. He's right there. Like, they're like, no. I'm like, Tim. And then we walk off and everyone's fine.

Simone Sichel: In. In Australia, he was the goat. Is.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Is. The goat is the one that brings soccer to life. Realistically.

Paul Cohalan: Unbelievable. Hasn't been here for years, actually, but he was here with Malaysian royalty. Etc.

Simone Sichel: Yep. That's.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, it was cool. It was really.

Simone Sichel: No, there is the. Tonight, there is ac.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Inter Milan. So.

Paul Cohalan: Yes.

Simone Sichel: Big Italian night. But I have to work, so. Yeah. That's an easy call.

Paul Cohalan: And the other one is. What'd you get out of today? I know you don't stop. You're a bit like me. You're probably worse than me.

Simone Sichel: No, it's been. It's been good. It's been good to talk.

Paul Cohalan: And. First one. That's cool.

Simone Sichel: Yeah. I never did a podcast in my life.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: Sometimes. Because I'm pretty sure that you understand what I mean. We are so into our thing.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Simone Sichel: That we never talk about. Cause it's like, I probably never tell my story like this. Ever.

Paul Cohalan: That's why I do it, man. Not me. Like, even people that are on socials. Right. And everything. Or people that are in other industries. What I've realized. And I never realized this. When I started it, I knew it was a bit of an aim, but we just don't slow down enough to sit there and go, why am I in where I am today? The roadblocks, the risks and the resilience. Right. Like your resilience today. Heaps different to when you Were young and you started them two restaurants and now they were hopeless. They didn't work out. But today it's like, how'd you get here? And no one goes, you know, we all, like, tomorrow something will go wrong and be like that again. But you've got to give yourself a pat on the back. Give yourself, you know, some credit.

Simone Sichel: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: And go peel the layers back and go, man, you had a wicked family. You weren't running from, you know, the war or anything. Like, you're like, you had a great feeling, but you went off and done your own thing. A couple of things didn't work. You could have stuck your head in the sand and went back home to mum and dad, but you didn't. You ended up here. Bought and sold. Different business partners. You're still putting your on more than most. Dino. In hospitality.

Simone Sichel: Yeah, look, it's. It's.

Paul Cohalan: It's good.

Simone Sichel: It's. It's so funny sometimes I would like to. It's one time back in the. Down the track. We're gonna do with George here.

Paul Cohalan: So bring George.

Simone Sichel: We're gonna bring George.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, that's a good idea.

Simone Sichel: And you're gonna see the transformation of us.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: Because we now it's. It's pro. It's my best friend.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah, of course.

Simone Sichel: What it is. It's my best friend. It's. Without George.

Paul Cohalan: Always speak so hardly of him.

Simone Sichel: I would be lost.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Simone Sichel: And I hope that he's thinking similar. I'm pretty sure that he does. We saw European. Yeah, man, we saw European. You see, like, I would. I would love that our conversation on the phone would be recorded because there's nothing.

Paul Cohalan: I'll get a third chair. I've done it once, twice before. We should do it. We should do a triple.

Simone Sichel: We just, like, eat on each other. We yell on each other. We just. All the time.

Paul Cohalan: Well, maybe when we do a check in, right. Maybe we do it at Avalon.

Simone Sichel: We can do it.

Paul Cohalan: Not. Not the cafe. We do it. We can do that anytime. Maybe we go to Avalon and bring him in. Yeah. And George, that's what we're doing. All right. And you got to cook us lunch or dinner.

Simone Sichel: It's definitely open.

Paul Cohalan: Thank you. Let's do it. Thanks, man.

Simone Sichel: Thanks.

Paul Cohalan: Thank you.