Jackson England: Pro Boxing and the Pursuit of Greatness

This transcript was generated automatically and lightly edited for readability. It may contain minor errors.

Jackson England: I love fighting ever since I was a kid. You know, my father fought, my grandfather fought, both my uncles fought and their father fought.

Paul Cohalan: The apples don't fall far.

Jackson England: So I come from a good lineage of fighters. At the moment, I'm number four in the world.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And this fight, when I won this one, I was currently sitting at number eight in the world, fighting for this particular belt. It's really funny, my uncle actually started this specific bell.

Paul Cohalan: So you're actually born and bred in. Not born and bred, probably born in Sydney. And you were there till 11?

Jackson England: Yeah, till about 11. But I would say born and bred because, you know, I still represent. I still proudly represent Penrith in Western Sydney. But I'm a Mandurah kid, you know, like, I've been in Mandurah since I moved there when I was 11, but they now moved back when I was about 18.

Paul Cohalan: You said 18?

Jackson England: Yeah, moved back when I was 18. Not the. I'd say, yeah. Not the worst decision in my life because the main reason why I moved back was, you know, obviously experience that part of my life and go back there and stuff, but it was also to, you know, spend time with my biological father. And also the. The whole point of going there was to turn professional then, you know, to start my professional career and go from there because obviously Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne, boxing's a lot more mainstream. There's a lot more eyes on it, you know, a lot more opportunities in a sense. But the living environment down in Western Sydney just was. It brought back so many memories as a young kid, like running around as a. As a young kid with my best mates and all that stuff. And it's a particular place, like, you know, everywhere's got their hard places. I won't say, like, you know, one place is worse than others. Ye, it's rough. It's definitely rough.

Paul Cohalan: The reason I started this, right, is roadblocks, risk and resilience.

Jackson England: Yep.

Paul Cohalan: That's actually why, like, as lads and. No, you have plenty of times you have these chats with lads anyway over the years, right. And then being in business 10 years, you know, you have the business chats and all that. And then I'm just like, for three years I want to do this now, today. I reckon the roadblocks, risk and resilience, I think with you know, being east and west and like, I'm from north of Melbourne. I was born in Albury.

Jackson England: Yeah, right on it.

Paul Cohalan: I understand the east coast. I've been to Sydney heaps. I understand, you know, the background there a Fair bit. And I grew up pretty with rough family and all that. Drugs, violence, alcohol, all that kind of stuff. And Albury Wodonga is. Can be a bit of a menace when I was growing up as well. Can be rough, I suppose. Like what you said before now. I really appreciate what you told me already. Like, you know, you come over here when you're 11, but just why. Can we just touch on why you're in Sydney? So when did you start boxing? And what was the kickoff really?

Jackson England: The kickoff for me was I got to thank my. My stepdad for that.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: So my stepdad was the one who actually really got me into it. Like, I love fighting ever since I was a kid. You know, my father fought, my. My grandfather fought, both my uncles fought and their father fought.

Paul Cohalan: The apples don't fall far.

Jackson England: They don't. You know, like I say, I come from a good lineage of fighters. So, you know, my. And my real Last name is McIver, so the McIver and the Thornberry names with the Australian boxing world are quite well known. And now after years of fighting as well, like my uncle, who's technically my second cousin, but out of respect, I call him both my uncle.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, that happens a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

Jackson England: He's now my manager. He's been my manager for the last how many years now and obviously does his job. I was on the phone to him just before we walked in here.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, awesome.

Jackson England: Awesome organizer.

Paul Cohalan: What's his name, sir?

Jackson England: Noel Thornberry.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, Noel Thornberry.

Jackson England: Yeah, Thornberry. He was. I'm pretty sure he won the light heavyweight and the cruiserweight Queensland titles.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: His younger brother won the IBO world title. He fought people like Joe Calzaghe, Anthony Mundine. He fought for. For bundles of people. And my uncle's had about, I think, six to almost seven or eight world champions underneath him. He's made world champions.

Paul Cohalan: Wow.

Jackson England: And soon to be myself, David neeka, Alex Leapai Jr. And his sons Cass and Rube as well. But, yeah, we're just all family orientated. We're right in there with that. But to go back on. Touch on where I first started, it was, you know, I knew my dad for. But not too much about the family history. I loved music and dance and singing and performing as I was a young kid. Like, I absolutely. I still love it to this day.

Paul Cohalan: That's awesome.

Jackson England: But I love the science and the beauty behind boxing. I just, I love. I love it so much. And I used to come home from school and either watch it'd be Michael Jackson videos on YouTube or it'd be fights like every.

Paul Cohalan: Would you say just. And I'll do this throughout the. Throughout this. Hence there's no questions in that. The movie. How. What do you. What do you. What's in the movie?

Jackson England: Me, my partner saw a. Twice.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: And then we saw the music.

Paul Cohalan: I loved it. I only watched it at home probably a couple weeks ago.

Jackson England: Phenomenal.

Paul Cohalan: How good is it?

Jackson England: It was phenomenal. And in knowing that, you know, his nephew Jaafar, like he first ever acting role, he nailed it. Absolutely nailed it. And I was blown away with how, you know, detailed and how well of an. Of a actor he was and how. How he kind of portrayed and how he did stuff. I know a lot of people like with mixed views and mixed emotions stuff, but it's done a million, a billion bloody things. Like it's reached that much. Like they've made back double the. What they've made from what they put out there with the budget they had.

Paul Cohalan: Wow.

Jackson England: They had like a. I think it was like 2 million. And they've made back a billion or almost 2 billion now. So whether that's right or wrong, but I. Me personally, I could go watch it a third time. I could go watch it a fourth.

Paul Cohalan: So. Good. And you know what? I reckon they left the right stuff out.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: And they absolutely nailed. Because your head's going like, what's going to be in the movie and what are they going to talk about? And I just reckon they absolutely nailed that. Like whether they end up doing another or whatever, it doesn't matter because I do.

Jackson England: I do my research. They have to do it. They have to do a part two because they've only showed that part from his life. And me being such a Michael Jackson fan, the way they did the orders and the way they did stuff was.

Paul Cohalan: Really set up really well.

Jackson England: And then they finishing off on obviously the bad tour in 1988, which is by far my favorite era. I do love the older stuff. Like the. When he was older in like 92, 93, everything. Early 2000s.

Paul Cohalan: I'm the same as you, though. That's. Was it not in 88, wouldn't it?

Jackson England: 88, Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: And back and back.

Jackson England: Yeah, yeah. I love all that stuff. Like, so the bad. The Bad era for me is my favorite.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Past that, like, you go to like the dangerous and then you go to like, to the history and everything like that. Like, me and Lee talk about it all the time.

Paul Cohalan: I've talked to Lee about it. Yeah.

Jackson England: Me, we. Lots of late nights talking about it.

Paul Cohalan: I said, Lee, I go, Lee Wouldn't that be so good for you now? Because, you know, he went down that whole theme and all that, he goes, mate, But I've been doing that for years. He lives and breathe.

Jackson England: Well, back in the day when me and Lee first met, the first thing we started off with the shows, that was 50 shade show at the Crown. And it was. Started off with Michael Jackson Dangerous.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And as soon as I knew that was part of it, I was set. Yeah, I was. I was set because that's me. That's just me. And I've been dancing and performing while fighting and training my whole life. And then when I. When I obviously was there with Lee and that, it was just like it was a match made. It was. It was just the way what you.

Paul Cohalan: Got to do for me is I text Lee the other night because I'm just. I'll own the couch. And texting people and then. Or if people reach out to me about doing the podcast.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: And I said, oh, when you getting on? And he's like, yeah, I will, man. I'm busy. I'm not, you know. You know, he's always on the go. Lee.

Jackson England: Right? Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: And so you'll have to go, man. However it goes for you today, and hit him up and put some pressure on him. For me. No, I will get him on.

Jackson England: I messed. I messaged him this morning.

Paul Cohalan: So people don't realize how much this flows. And every single person that leaves goes. It flows really well. And it's more of a casual chat. It's not because people think the opposite. They think, you get in, you're gonna get questioned. It's just a chat. Right. And Lee will kill it. He will be.

Jackson England: He won't stop.

Paul Cohalan: No, I'll need two hours.

Jackson England: I know. Because he's got so much going on all at once.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Even when I messaged him this morning, like, I talked to him and all the boys, like, all the time.

Paul Cohalan: All the time.

Jackson England: And even when I do message him, it's always like a phone call. We on the phone for like 45 minutes or 50 minutes, and then we'll get off and then it'll be like, oh, shows this, show that, like, I love that. The fact of how much he's killing it. And like, yeah, with, like now going back to the Michael stuff, like how immersed he is with it, how I am. And we all just have a group chat dedicated to just talking about Michael Jackson stuff.

Paul Cohalan: Do you know one of my favorite bits? Right? And they show these heaps. They portrayed him really well. Right?

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: And I love that when he. Middle of night, one two o', clock, he's in his room, you know, his studio, and he's like rang up, ask a favor and next minute, friend. They're driving in a suburb they'd never go to before. And they went to that. That tin shed basically. And they got all like local dances.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: And he went in, he was just so nice to him. They all wanted signatures and then involved him in the whole Thriller. That's that piece for me that was wicked. And the whole how the thrill and how fussy 1% is on everything. Like.

Jackson England: Well, there's that constant thing and I use it in an example of. As a fighter as well.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Fighters and people of that magnitude, like, there will only ever be one.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: And the same with like, you know, Freddie Mercury, David Bowie.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: Elvis Presley. There's only. There's and same thing with fighters. There's only going to be ever like one Ali or Tyson. Like.

Paul Cohalan: Yes. Just different.

Jackson England: There's a difference between, you know, greatness and like that excellence as well. And like that extra 1 percenters. Or like those parts where people don't know how to sacrifice and go further on.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. And ever. Because people most of the time. I spoke about this morning with Keoni. He's like. And he's only 20, but he's like the. The judgment piece. Right. People might even think of it. They just won't. They care too much.

Jackson England: They care too much.

Paul Cohalan: Instead of going, stop. No, that 1%. Like, we got to do that and people don't get it. But when it comes together, whether it's dancing, work, business, you know, fighting, whatever.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: I think you shared yesterday. Was it. You shared the Bruce Lee thing yesterday, 53 years ago.

Jackson England: Yeah. About that. Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: Even that, like, room watching them.

Jackson England: Oh, unreal.

Paul Cohalan: Talk about 1%.

Jackson England: It's like well beyond its time. Yeah. Like. And that's the same thing with Michael, with Bruce, with Chuck Norris, with all these little things that people will be embedded in their. In their mind and in their body of people that will just stand out. And that standout feature for fighters, athletes, you know, musicians, anything like that, they have a part of every human being and it just. It's stuck to them. And there's only few people who can have that sort of impact on people.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: And being in that lifetime. And that's why I say there will never be another.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Yeah.

Jackson England: And that's cool. I absolutely admire that aspect. But went off topic.

Paul Cohalan: We did. And this will happen a bit. So we go back you're talking about how much you love boxing.

Jackson England: Yeah, so. So back when. On the point of where I started with. With the fighting. So I love boxing, love performing as a young kid and I was probably about 13 years old and my.

Paul Cohalan: I see you were here.

Jackson England: And I was about 13 years old and I was always, you know, come back from school either watch dancing, fighting, muck around. My mates, my sister was doing the same. She'd just be hanging out.

Paul Cohalan: How many siblings you got?

Jackson England: Just one.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Oh, sorry. I've got one sibling who lives here in Perth. For me, my. My older sister and I've got a half sister back home in Sydney.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, cool.

Jackson England: She's. I think she'd be about 15 now.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And I chat to her now and then.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, cool, that.

Jackson England: But, yeah, still keep in touch.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: And we. We coming home from school when my stepdad at the time, he was working FIFO.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Flying out to Barrow Island or doing whatever, and he come back and he's like, look, he took the Foxtel card, he took everything off and he was like, look, you can see the. I want you guys, I want you guys to aspire for more. And never left me, you know, because for me, seeing all these amazing artists and these amazing fighters and all these sort of stuff, like having that standout stuff, it was like, you know, what do I want to do? What do I want to be? And not saying like a 9 to 5 or anything like that isn't the criteria. He just wanted us to aspire for more, whether it's a business, whether it's tafe, whether it's fighting, whether it's something for me and my sister, just for us to chase dreams, you know, not just get stuck in the worker bee lifestyle and everything like that. And I'm glad he did that because I went away on a school camp and I'd always, you know, muck around my mates and like, kind of thing, and natural ability was always there for a fight wise, for a fight perspective and everything like that. But I never really trained properly, but obviously big fan of Bruce Lee, all the boxers, all the stuff like that. I just love combat sports in general. And I came back from the school camp and I said to him, I was like, I want to fight, I want a box. And he goes, all right. It was like, I think maybe the next day or the next two days after went to the local gym, local where were, and the very first session was a sparring day legit. Just rocked up, I think it was a Saturday morning. Rocked up, Saturday morning. Jumped in there with whoever and just sparred whoever. And I remember there was a bigger guy about. He would have. I was only like, what, 54 kilos at the time. I was only 13 years old.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And this guy, about 75 kilos, he fucking pieced me up.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: And there was an older guy there who I became really good friends with as well. He would have been his, like, mid-30s. He saw that and was like. So he went and he pieced him up. He come up to me, up and go, oh, I got your back, mate. It's all right.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, did he?

Jackson England: Yeah. Thanks, man. Sweet. But he didn't like, beat me to a pulp or anything. He just, like, kept me in check.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And then I sparred the coach.

Paul Cohalan: It was a big learning by sounds of it.

Jackson England: Big learning.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, absolutely.

Jackson England: But then I sparred the coach. After sparring him and moving around doing a bit of stuff, he come up to my. To my stepdad and he goes, oh, how many fights has he had or how long has he been training for? He goes, this is his very first day. And he goes, mate. He goes, I'll take him under my wing. And I had my fight, first amateur fight, I think eight, seven or eight weeks later. Oh, wow. Yeah. Jumped in the ring for the very first time.

Paul Cohalan: And you remember that a lot. Yeah, yeah.

Jackson England: I would have just turned 14, actually. It's funny, though, because even that very first fight, the first three fights of my amateurs, I lost.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, you did? Yeah.

Jackson England: And it was obviously boxing politics and everything like that. You can look at it however you want, but to me, the amateurs was always an apprenticeship to the pros. I never really saw myself stylistically going to the Olympic Games or Commonwealth Games. I got offered to go to the Commonwealth Games.

Paul Cohalan: Did you? Yeah, yeah.

Jackson England: But not for Australia. I got to go for Samoa.

Paul Cohalan: Oh.

Jackson England: Yeah. I got a family for. Because my stepdad's Samoan. I got a family friend ring from Samoa and say, do you want to represent thing? And I said, oh, look, I'm on the cusp of the turn a pro now, so I appreciate it.

Paul Cohalan: So you stayed on the road track? Yeah.

Jackson England: And I didn't have any. A massive amateur career either. But the first amateur, very first amateur fight, I'll never forget because my mum hated watching me fight.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: Now she absolutely loves it. Yep. Still gets a bit nervous. I don't get nervous. I. I love that atmosphere.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Never. Never been a nervous guy for fighting. No, no. Like, I love.

Paul Cohalan: Wow.

Jackson England: Even after my last fight, I was more nervous to propose to my Partner than I was to make sure that was right before even the fight. You know, everyone else was like, oh, you're stressed.

Paul Cohalan: How long ago was that last fight? We will go back. What was the. That was a year ago. And you posed at the end of it.

Jackson England: I propose at the end.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: In front of four. Four and a half.

Paul Cohalan: So were then 27.

Jackson England: Yes.

Paul Cohalan: Yep. So we're 28 now.

Jackson England: Lucky, lucky. You know, I forget all the time. No. So, yeah, like, going on that sort of amateur perspective, he took me on board. Bloody. That was it. And it was. It was just like bread and butter for me.

Paul Cohalan: So first three fights over, what time period did you do then?

Jackson England: Man, that would have been like, in a space of a good couple of like maybe two months. Three months.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, was it really?

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: And you lost the first three.

Jackson England: Lost the first three.

Paul Cohalan: What was after that third one, if you can remember? I'm guessing you probably do. And. And you. And you lost. Like, what was. What was the shift for you? What was. Hey, was it like a slowdown? Was it. Were you. What. What was the.

Jackson England: Cause it was more the aspect of seeing early on the sport that it can have that favoritism, it can have that sort of thing. Because the first fight I had, I'll never forget because my mum come up to the ring and I feel bad because I was just a young kid and stuff, but mum was so amped up and so worried and so thing. And the guy hit me in the back of the head maybe four times on the whole fight. Arguably, I should have won that. But they gave to the other fella and mum come up. She's like, you're right, son. Carrying on. And I was like, hey, yeah. And I was like. And I felt really rude now because I love my mum.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, of course. Of course.

Jackson England: In that heat of the moment, it was like, man, stop coming up near the ring. But she was just worried. I'm a son.

Paul Cohalan: And you're new to it as well.

Jackson England: I'm new to it as well. Like, first time fight and everything like that. And then the other two fights I had after that were rematches with the same guy.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: And he's a. Him and his younger brother. He's.

Paul Cohalan: Sorry, Mum. All right. He loves you.

Jackson England: I love my mum. I love my mom. I love my whole family. But that was just in the heat.

Paul Cohalan: She'd understand it.

Jackson England: Yeah, she does.

Paul Cohalan: And she gets it. It's good that you say that. You're open about it. That's true.

Jackson England: I'm not gonna lie. But, yeah, and then even the next two fights were a rematch with the same guy. He's an awesome guy. His younger brothers are a great fight. They were both great fighters. Like, arguably, I believe I did enough. Even one of them, like, I was like, oh, fair and square. He, he won that, you know, like, and that's just being honest. And then even the other one, I was like, oh, I didn't know. I should have got that. But the main thing for me was like, it was having that self belief and that confidence in myself and knowing that, hey, look, this doesn't deter me. You learn more from losing, whether it's in a fight or in life, business,.

Paul Cohalan: Personal, you name it, whatever.

Jackson England: Yeah, you learn more from a loss than you do.

Paul Cohalan: So let me ask something and I think this is something I kind of reflect on myself a bit and it's more business, not fighting that obviously. And I've had this the last 12 months is like you're in a. Or loss or whatever you want to call it. I'll sit in it for a bit. Most of the time, next morning I'll dig my heels in and go, yeah. And it's what usually. And it has even again recently, like probably more than ever in the last 10 years is gone. Let's go. And I always take the positive out of it.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: What did I learn? Or did the universe. I needed to lose that or that person or that, you know, everything. I think I'm really big. And more recently than ever is the universe does things that as for a certain, you know, for a reason. And it's how we grab it and what we do with it. Yeah. How we perceive it.

Jackson England: Yeah. And I'm a big believer in that as well.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. You know, because what you just said before, just quickly, I'm guessing you didn't sit on it long, the losses, because the way you spoke about, you're like, hey, I thought I should have got this, but I didn't, you know, and then move on. Yeah.

Jackson England: Because if you hold on to unnecessary things like that, you dwell on it and then it's not about. You don't progress, you don't move forward.

Paul Cohalan: Until you let go of it.

Jackson England: Until you let go of it. You need to be able to let go of it.

Paul Cohalan: I reckon, I reckon I've read, watched and spoke about this whole let go thing.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: In the last week, four or five times again. And once again, the universe. Funny how something comes up and I've been letting go a bit the last couple of years, but it's so good to hear that from person I don't know very well.

Jackson England: No. But that doesn't mean like. And it's all those things where I've learned.

Paul Cohalan: You're 14.

Jackson England: Yeah. I'm grateful enough to learn and have those people in my life that helped me through that as well. Like people that taught me those sort of tools and skills along the way. But it's not easy. It's definitely not easy. Like, and me being the. I was such a. Such a cunt to myself. Like from a. From a. Not an ego perspective, but from a. You know, hard on yourself. Hard on myself, like. And I still kind of am now. I like to say I'm a. A recovering perfectionist.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Because no matter how much we want something to be perfect, we as a human being will never be. And we can do our best to try, but we all have our own things here and there. Things don't go the way we want with the way we plan. You know, we can't be in control all the time. And it's not about being controller because I'm a very loosey goosey guy.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: But I know for a fact in a ring, I back myself 100. Like, I've always had the joke of I feel more comfortable in a ring fighting or on a street fighting or somewhere fighting than I do going into my. Into a house or into a home or bloody being around loved ones or doing anything like that. And that's just not because I love, you know, I'm always ready for a fight. It's the fact that I enjoy it and I love it.

Paul Cohalan: So much passion.

Jackson England: And that's my. That's a calm place for me where my. You get some people who. Other fighters who. Oh, that's chaotic or it's hectic or it's anything. And it is the realist of it, you know, fighting and fighting someone else and getting in there, being in the trenches and doing all this sort of stuff, that's not normal. But for me, that's a sense of normal. For me, that's where I find comfort.

Paul Cohalan: Just what you spoke about there, I only spoke about an hour ago on another podcast with a 20 year old. And is the whole hard on yourself. Right. So when we're in our 20s and 30s, I think we're harder than ever. And I was the same. Right. And going back to the whole stick your head in the sand, it's like when you're over. I think you learn when you get older and I'm 43, so I'm a bit older than you is don't look.

Jackson England: A day over 31.

Paul Cohalan: Thanks mate. When you be, when you get to a point you'd be over hard on yourself. I think there's a balance there where you're not being too hard on yourself and it can push you a bit of a different way without waking up and digging your heels in. So it's finding that balance but I think that changes over time. So when you're 20, 30 you can deal with whether it's work all night, get up, you know, and you repeat or you know, do the 1 percenters constantly. But I, if you go watch which obviously is how we started talking the podcast with Tyler Wood. I talk about self compassion now. I always talked about being hard on yourself but my life coach said to me last year she's like just before the end of a two minutes she's like Paul, have some self compassion now. That was a whole different perspective of don't be hard on yourself. But she said that actually put me in tears. Like I was just about to walk out the door and it, for whatever reason it just come over and it was a really big learning for me, you know, cause married kids and all that and then divorce and everything else in business and it was still be hard, still do all that stuff but then just have give yourself that self compassion on it which is really cool.

Jackson England: Well even on that mark like I talk to a lot of young kids now, yeah of course kids that I.

Paul Cohalan: Look up to you and look there.

Jackson England: And stuff and like I still try and separate myself from the point of. Because at the end of the day I'll never ever think of myself bigger than nobody.

Paul Cohalan: Like yeah, we're all human.

Jackson England: We're all human. I work hard for what I do, but I'm always grateful for what I have. And anybody who wants advice from me, I'm just grateful enough or I thank them enough that they want advice from me.

Paul Cohalan: Isn't it a good feeling when someone asks you something or and it's,.

Jackson England: It's an eye opening feeling because it's like wow, you know, like they look at me as something for them to learn from and do stuff and it's like I'm still doing that every day myself.

Paul Cohalan: I do this because I want to make a social impact or even if it helps one person because your story or something like that like and it's the same with you, right? Like what a feeling when imagine like a young kid like what you went through as well and you know that 30 year old that done for you factor and you go do that for another kid or whoever and you just help that one person, he feels good and he goes on the right path or he, you'll never know the other path. But you know.

Jackson England: Yeah, just that impact that you can have or some small part of it, you know, like. And yeah. And it just, it brightens people's day.

Paul Cohalan: It's any money beats any materialistic, like. Absolutely, you know, we all like what we like, but it's like you go back to that's what fills your cup.

Jackson England: Oh yeah.

Paul Cohalan: For most people. Yeah, it is.

Jackson England: No, and I love that, you know, like being able to help the younger guys coming up through the sport or even just anybody in general, you know, struggling people in this situation because everyone has their struggles, everyone's. Everyone's going through stuff currently or they've gone through things in their life, you know, and you can never separate yourself and say that oh my stuff's worse than yours.

Paul Cohalan: You know, we're all human. Should only compete with yourself. Absolutely. Every day.

Jackson England: And that's where like looking at that adversity going through as a young kid or even like the things, you know, where the people, you know, have the, you know, with the upbringing, the scene stuff, the violence or anything like that going, separating yourself from being down the same thing or making the same mistakes or being on that same cycle. So seeing some of the things and I've been around that sort of stuff push me in the way of, okay, look, I want greatness, not just for me, but for my kids, for my family, for everybody in my life. So I need to make sure I, you know, whether it's the mistakes and picking myself back up and going along the way, it's always being consistent and being honest with myself and always having that self belief.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: You know, and that's the same thing I want for my kids. You know, I want my kids when they get older, for them to know that they can always chase their dreams, you know, like whatever it is.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Back them 100. They don't have to fight. They can have, they can do whatever they want.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And I'll 100 back whatever they want to do.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And know that their dad will always love them.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: Whatever they choose, whatever they choose, whatever. And no matter what, I'm going to be right there to support them and cheer them on.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. That's awesome.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: So go back to. And just on that. Actually. If you go back a couple of generations and it was Survival, I always call it survival mode. It was the white picket fence. And your parents were always the ones that. That probably more judgment and a lot of it's to do with them. Right. Like they don't see it. They want their kid to do well so they look better as a parent. And it's not a. That's sort of. I'm not throwing stones there because. No, no. But it's not a bit natural. No. But I think now, I think we're learning that to allow the kids and stuff to do what they want. You know, we used to get pushed to go, make sure you go, do that and make sure you go. But like I watched this thing last night and it was like yesterday, it was a diver CEO, he talked about your learning style. I think it was. And everyone's different, whether it's building blocks or whether it's, you know, words or whatever. And he goes, you should work that out.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: And know that about yourself and then steer down that way or. Or know it about your kids and steer them that way. Instead of going, you got to go do an apprenticeship or you gotta, you know, make a big difference.

Jackson England: Absolutely, yeah. Like even for me, like going on the learning style. I'm a very visual, physical learner.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Not a. I'm not a writer, nothing. I still struggle to remember birthdays, names, spelling, map you give why you become a boxer.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Well, my mum always said, you know, hey, you're a good looking mate and you can fight. So just keep doing that. Yeah, I'll do that.

Paul Cohalan: So. So fourth fight, first win.

Jackson England: Yep. So yeah, fourth fight, first win.

Paul Cohalan: 14 Still or 15 by then?

Jackson England: Probably about 15. Yeah, probably about 15 and stuff. So like. Yeah, just obviously gradually through developing as we go along. The very first amateur coach I had was down in Mandurah as well.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And he's an awesome guy. We're still friends to this day. And then. Yeah. Only fast forward and all that, whether with fights and everything like that. I only had 22 amateurs. A lot of people ask me that. Like they say, how many amateurs do you have? Because you get people who have hundreds. 200.

Paul Cohalan: Is that right?

Jackson England: Yeah, a lot of people. Yeah, I know that.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: A lot of people have like. Well even like you get people who have like just under 100 and that's a lot.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: But even when I told my old man, because he only had four amateurs.

Paul Cohalan: Wow.

Jackson England: And he lied about his age to turn professional. He had his first fight as a professional, I think at like 16 or 17. Something yeah. So he lied about his age and fought professionally, but. But look at that. And 22. 22 For me. When I told him, he was like, that's a lot. But they all come from the time we. Even both my uncles, they never had amateur fights. They just turned pro straight away.

Paul Cohalan: Is that right? Yeah.

Jackson England: Even my grandfather.

Paul Cohalan: So it's changed heaps.

Jackson England: Yeah, it changed heaps. You know, even when my grandfather, I think in total he would have had about 250 fights in total, bare knuckle and sanctioned fights. And Errol's a beast. Like, it's such a shame he passed away years and years ago now, but he was a great fighter. He was one of the, he was the top 10 light middleweight in Australia for years.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: And all that travel and tent fighting and stuff for him and my other grandfather or my uncle's father, Trevor, they all traveled around and they all fought with the tents and stuff, like it's a big history there. But I look at when my dad fought his transition into the pros, he only had four and me having 22, he was blown away by me having 22. Yep. But 22 was enough for me. That was set. And then the transition from that coming and being 18, I turned pro at 19. So I was living in Sydney seven or eight months, doing whatever there and then. Just, it was a little bit unreliable, a little bit hard. Just the lifestyle in western Sydney. So I was like, you know what, I'm going to go back to Perth. It's stable, I can have the stability that I need.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And it was hard because, like, tell them, I'd tell him, my old man, that, you know, after being there as long as it was just hard, you know, working. I was concreting, I was laying fake grass, I was doing different jobs, I was doing all these different things. And then being with my best mates, all my best mates are still over there. I still got beautiful, like, friends over here. I've made some great friends over here in Perth as well that are real close to me.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: But I was over there, it was good for like the five months and I was like, man, like the whole point of me coming here was to turn pro. Like, I need a, I need to start doing stuff. I need a thing. Like I was training every day. I was waking up at 4 in the morning to go train and do stuff and it just wasn't happening. So telling my dad like, you know, hey, look, I'm gonna go back to Perth, I need the money. I've Just made from working this job, doing. I think it was painting a house or something. I was doing something random with a family friend. Dad was missing for a few days. You know, he likes to go walk about now and then. Yeah, I love him to bits, he's the best. But I think. No, actually I think he was working himself. And then I tell him and yeah, it broke my heart a little bit, but it was the best thing I needed to do. I needed to do that. And not even. I think it was like three. No, sorry. I think it was maybe like four months after I got back from Perth. My coach, who I've had here, who's been my pro in my pro career, my whole nine years as a professional now, he messaged me straight away and he goes, when are we doing it? And I said, tell me when. And then we. Not even. Yeah, like four months later I had my first pro fight at Metro City.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: Thunderdome. And never looked back since.

Paul Cohalan: So what year was that?

Jackson England: 2017, I'm pretty sure. Yep, 2017. Yeah, 2017. Because it was just after my stepdad's father just passed away. It was. I, I think I had my first pro fight either the day before or the day he passed.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And I got that tattooed on me. Yeah, yeah, got that tattooed on me for that. It was a shame because I've actually got a tattoo my whole side. All three of my grandfathers, I got their names, their date of birth, day they died, everything like that. I've got little trinkets to show what they did in their lives, you know, obviously, my dad's father being a fighter, my mum's father being a truck driver all around Australia.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And then my stepdad's father being a choir master. So being in the small culture and stuff, very church orientated. So he was a choir master. And it's a shame none of them got to see me for. And I would love to have any of them and see me fight. Would love to, but they're obviously.

Paul Cohalan: They might not see you, but they're obviously a huge impact in your world and a lot of driver and the foundation of where you're at. Right, how long? Just quickly, how long. When did your mum and stepdad get together, if you don't mind? Because I had a stepdad too and they got together.

Jackson England: Well, they've always known each other, so it was funny. My dad, my. My real dad, my stepdad, my mum, her side of the family, my stepdad's side of the family and my dad's side of the family all went to the same high school together. Oh, did they now drew it? Yeah, in Penrith. And they all hung out. They all knew each other. And my mum's a bit older, so my mum used to. Even when my mum left school, my. My stepdad used to go to. I can't remember the shop now, but it was in the plaza, in the old plaza and stuff. And my dad used to work at the back and my mum used to work in the front.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And my stepdad used to come catch up with her because they were friends to start with and then they'd go. My mum would give him a couple of coins or whatever, go play at the arcade and then they'll catch up and hang out. Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: Wow.

Jackson England: So like they've known each other for years. Yeah, years and years. I would have been about six when I first remember meeting my stepdad.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: And. But he used to babysit me and my sister when were young.

Paul Cohalan: Wow. When were kids. Yeah.

Jackson England: So like my dad, you know, he. He got in trouble to do with some stuff.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And he ended up doing a bit of time, so. And yeah, that's fun.

Paul Cohalan: So my stepdad and mum got together at 6 when I was 18 months old, 16 months old. So I remember getting together, but I remember my stepdad and then my sister that I grew up with, she's five years difference. So when I was five, she was born, but same thing. My dad trouble went away.

Jackson England: Yeah. Obviously. That's the thing. I love my dad to bits and I love all the people in my life. I look at the example I've had my dad, who is a great inspiration to me from a fight perspective from everything like that. And then I've got my stepdad who has been there for me as a father figure and everything like that. And even my dad, he's. He's done the same thing, supported me.

Paul Cohalan: There's always a. Yeah. Piece of it.

Jackson England: And then I've got my. My coach who is like a.

Paul Cohalan: Who's your coach?

Jackson England: His name's Jason Gray.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: He trains people out of Bedfordale. He used to have a gym lake before COVID Yep. It was called Onyx Elite.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And stuff. So now he's just got it out of his property in. In Bedfordale. He's like a third dad. So I've had to had the perspective from all three men and they've made massive impacts in my life as well. Helped me.

Paul Cohalan: So lucky to have all them in your life.

Jackson England: Yeah, yeah. They've helped me in different struggles, different things, but they've done nothing but support me. Same with my mum, same with my partner, same with a lot of people. But those three guys, I can safely say have like impacted me massively through my life.

Paul Cohalan: So how long you been with your partner now?

Jackson England: Oh, properly, I think like going on close to three years or maybe three and a half.

Paul Cohalan: Kids?

Jackson England: Oh, no. So we actually met when were 13 or she was 14, I was 13 and I ran from my parents house to a mutual friend's house for a house party and I ran there because I'm crazy. Like as me, I'm very much boxing. Not one foot out, one. One foot in. One foot out. It's both feet in.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: So, yeah. And you know, that's the way it is. But I was, yeah. As a kid, I would have been, yeah, 14, 13, 14 years old or whatever. And I remember I was just training, doing stuff, but I ran like 15 minutes there and I walked up the driveway and she was there with the mutual friend and I remember her standing there and I was like, who the that?

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: Like I was blown away. And then fast forward a couple of years. She was 18, I was 17, I was going out underage at the nightclubs in Mandurah.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And I'd be dancing on the stage, I'd be dancing everywhere. Don't drink. So I was just sober hanging out with everybody and she was working behind the bar, she'd be working at the club and stuff and she doesn't remember, but I remember because I always bloody just obsessed over this girl and she said, yo, what are you doing here? I'm like, oh, just hanging out, I'm just doing whatever. And I always used to just go out and dance underage. And then I'd run home, I'd run an hour home dressed like this or dressed up. I'd run home because I'd. I'd get there where mate would drop us off, they'd all be pissed. Smashed. So I just run home.

Paul Cohalan: Wow.

Jackson England: Yeah, I run, I'll run like just under an hour home and sneak in the door and my parents try not to wake my mum up and stuff. And then. And then. And then fast forward again. I was with my ex partner who I've had my kids with my two beautiful sons and it was early days and then I remember seeing her at a. She worked at a CD shop in the Mandurah Forum and ran into her there and we spoke for about two and a half hours.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: Because I hadn't seen her in Ages. And we spoke for about two and a half hours and I got back in my car and I was like, man, something for years this girl would never get. I was like, I'm too. It was the. Actually the one of the only times I've been nervous in my life. I was like, I don't think this girl ever give me a chance. Every time I saw her out, every time I think I was like, man, I just want to. Just want to ask her. But I thought, nah, she's a bit too cool. Yeah, she'd be too good looking too. Thing too, whatever. And then years and years later, we reconnected and she told me she. She always was eyeing me off and doing the same thing. I was like, man, I wasn't alone. Oh, that's such a breath of fresh air. I was so. I was so thinking because even when we reconnected, I thought, oh, no, she. She. Even if we hang out and like, go get a coffee or go hang out, maybe she, you know, maybe it's just on a friend level.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And when there was that spark there, it was just the same as the spark as I had as a young kid with her just like being, wow, obsessed. And then she openly told me that and I was like, oh, I'm not alone. I'm so happy about that.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: I'm not just standing here in the dark.

Paul Cohalan: So you'd been. So you got together about 24, 25.

Jackson England: I was about. No, sorry, I was about 20. 26.

Paul Cohalan: 26, Yeah.

Jackson England: 26, Yes. I'm 28 now. Yeah, it would have been about 26.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And then, yeah, after that, like even our very first date after reconnecting, I said, I swear to God, I'm gonna marry you one day. And she goes, nah, whatever. Yeah, like that. Just having a laugh because she's banter through the roof. She's the best. She's my best friend.

Paul Cohalan: She's obviously my best friend. Oh, that's so good, man.

Jackson England: I love her so much. And crazy thing as well, because I was on another podcast with Reese Abbott and I got to openly share about. With the struggles, obviously with the separation and like, kind of going there and. And with the struggle that I went through that time, I had to learn to be myself again.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Because I lost myself a lot with that.

Paul Cohalan: What, when you separated with your. During.

Jackson England: During the relationship and then during the thing, like, I lost myself massively. Like, it was quite a hard time for me, especially then the separation. Then, like, going, I was living at.

Paul Cohalan: My sister's, mate, I Love and appreciate it much. And what I'm finding is everyone I sit with, there's always a piece or two that I resonate with and I get a lot out of. Yeah. And like, everything you said, even from stepdad, real dad growing up, and even to the relationship piece, like, it's just. I think everyone's got stuff that resonates, but I got a lot out of that, so I really appreciate it because. Because, you know, go back to last week, I probably thought we're going to talk boxing the whole time, but it actually. It actually doesn't always happen like that just because it's a bit of an open podcast, not just about a niche. But, mate, tell me about all this. Like, let's get. Let's get to, you know, we're past. Past 18, 19, and let's get to the fun stuff. Pro 19. Then what happened, like. And educate me, man. I don't know a lot about it.

Jackson England: So these are only the four of the what I've got Australasian, Australian, WBC, wdc, WBO, IBF. IBF. I've got about eight, let's say that. Eight. Eight belts out of one.

Paul Cohalan: He's humble, right. I'll tell you, he rings me. Hang on. He rings me, we talk on the phone and then he's like, yeah, I'll bring a belt or so. Last time I took one or whatever, or how many should I bring? And sends me a photo and I might be. Bring as many as you want. He's like, I'll just bring one. And I'm like, you know, humble as. And I'm like, mate, bring him. This is what it's about, like, all the heartache and all life and journey, mate, this is.

Jackson England: This is all for us.

Paul Cohalan: This is a sacrifice, right?

Jackson England: Yeah, absolutely.

Paul Cohalan: So, yeah, sorry, mate. And this is. This is pretty special, this one. Yeah.

Jackson England: So that. This one here is from the last fight. So I got to fight at RAC.

Paul Cohalan: Last when you've opposed that. Yeah.

Jackson England: So I was. So with all these belts, like, these ones here, they're basically regional, international titles that get you closer to the top where you can fight for the world title. Basically, like trophies that move you up into those sort of statuses. And, like, at the moment, I'm number four in the world.

Paul Cohalan: World. Yep.

Jackson England: And this fight, when I won this one, I was currently sitting at number eight in the world and fighting for this. This particular belt. It's really funny, my uncle actually started this specific belt.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, wow.

Jackson England: Not the IBF itself. Yeah, like, that's a Sanctioning body. That's.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Of course they fall under the same legislation as the FBI in America.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: But it's another story. But from this, the Pan Pacific title, he was once a chairman or one of the chairmans of. Of the IBF and he said, we need to get a title or something that is international on a level thing where it helps people get into the world ratings or further down in the world rating. So he started this Pan Pacific title, but then it was a conflict interest because his fighters that he was managing and promoting were fighting for the title. But he was also a chairman, so he had to step down from that role. But he's basically one of the ones. Him and another fellow started the IBF Pan Pacific because there was only. What from knowledge. I think there was only the IBF world title, which was the legitimate world title. And then it was like an intercontinental. All these other ones. Other ones that are like on the same level.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: But they need one for Australia. Australia, New Zealand, everything like that. So this sort of region for people to be able to work their ways into the top 10, top five in the world.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Which is a funny story because when we organized a fly for that here in Perth and we said, oh, the IBF, because I fall for another IBF title, that put me in the top 15.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And then this one when I was sitting at number eight, put me straight at number four.

Paul Cohalan: Four, four.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: Put me straight.

Paul Cohalan: What's your stats now?

Jackson England: SAT is 19.

Paul Cohalan: Three since being pro. Not since you were 19.

Jackson England: Yeah. So 19. And three. So 19 wins, three losses. And those losses I take, like they're very skeptical losses. Don't get me wrong, like they're very much people who have watched the fight and had the chance to, you know, be there and watch the fights and stuff. So like, I'm man enough to know if I lose fair and square, put my hand up. But those three on my record, I personally.

Paul Cohalan: Where were they?

Jackson England: One was here yard in Perth and it was a rugged fight. But like, I still believe I did enough to win. But they gave to the other fella and it was like, okay. And then I asked for the rematch. We didn't get it, unfortunately. And then the second loss was in Sydney at ICC arena against a great fighter who's actually fighting this weekend. Me and him are good friends now. Paul Fleming.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: Great indigenous fighter. We fought. We had. We got fight of the year for the war. We had. We went town. Yeah, we absolutely went town. Bloody. It was such. If you had a Chance. Watch it.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: Phenomenal fight. It's probably one of the most exciting fights I've ever had.

Paul Cohalan: How good?

Jackson England: And probably the most grueling fight. I could probably say the most dawn, like going head to head, we basically didn't stop throwing punches for 10 rounds straight. And it was on the undercard of Barry Hall and Sonny Bill Williams.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jackson England: And people liked our fight more because were the co. Main event and Sonny Bill Williams and Barry Hall, that didn't. That went one round.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: And they're like, oh, what a waste. Like they. Our fight was the should and yours was. Ours was phenomenal. Yeah, he. He got the win on that. I do believe I should have won that. That personally.

Paul Cohalan: But have you spoke about it?

Jackson England: Yeah, yeah, we spoke on the phone a week later.

Paul Cohalan: So you'll give each other for the next ten years about it?

Jackson England: Yeah, I always laugh about it. I'm like, I should have got it, you know, But. But he's a great guy as well.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Oh, that's good.

Jackson England: Such a good fellow. And that's the thing people think like, oh, boxing, you hate everybody or like you hate the people who fight. At the end of the day, fighting's fighting, it's a sport. But at the end of the day, before and after, you could be mates.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: During the fight, unfortunately, that's where the business happens. Happens. And you know, like, there's a mutual respect for one another. Some fighters, you don't have that mutual respect. You don't really like them as an individual.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: It's just the way they hold themselves. Like me, I've got respect for everybody. Everybody who laces up, pair of gloves, anyone who fights in general, when anybody in general, like life, I'll always respect everybody regardless. But some people aren't the nicest people, let's just say that.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Jackson England: Each of their own.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah, of course.

Jackson England: But I'm not going to change who I am just because of someone else.

Paul Cohalan: So it'll be. It'll be ego, usually. That it is. Yeah.

Jackson England: Having that healthy ego to be able to always respect people even if you don't necessarily like them.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: That takes a lot of skill, you know.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, it does. But that goes back to the emotional intelligence bit. Right. Maturity.

Jackson England: Yeah, maturity. Being mature in yourself, not worrying about other shit and letting shit get to you as well. But yeah, so that was the fight with Paul Fleming and then the last one was a guy named Liam Wilson, which arguably I should have won as well. But in that sense, I look at those three There, look at my development. Look at what happened. Look at the situation. Same thing as a young kid. You learn more as you go through, and you learn more from that anyways. But even the politics of boxing, it opens you up more to how that politics can really be real.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Because you always watch movies and hear stories and all that sort of stuff. Oh, someone paid this. Someone did that. There's. It actually happens.

Paul Cohalan: Does it really?

Jackson England: Absolutely. At the highest level.

Paul Cohalan: You would think now, 20, 26, it doesn't, right?

Jackson England: No, they just hide it really well, you know, but, like, that's the thing. Like, regardless of me kicking up a fast. Like, some people make a scene, some people carry on. My job's to fight. At the end of the day, I believe in myself. Myself enough where I believe if you.

Paul Cohalan: Wasted that much energy and focus on worrying about that, you'd be for your next fight.

Jackson England: It's the same thing with fighting. Like, even all my whole career, up to my, what, 13 or 14th fight, I made next to nothing. No money. Yeah, I made nothing, you know, like, I made just over a thousand bucks in 13 fights.

Paul Cohalan: Wow.

Jackson England: Like 1, 300 bucks.

Paul Cohalan: Where's that? And you don't need to be. Be totally accurate. How is it all now with fights?

Jackson England: Way better.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: We're now being number four in the world. Like, the next fight that we're having is for the world title eliminator. So, yeah, the winner out of me and the other fella moves straight to number one, and he's first in line to challenge the current world champion for the world title.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: So that's big. Big but. And that's why boxers get paid more than UFC fighters, because in a sense, it's. It's still that gentleman's sport, you know, where UFC is obviously a lot more mainstream, the way they handle things and do stuff, and it's everywhere. Then their media team's phenomenal. But the boxing's always going to have that upper hand when it comes to money because of the. I think it's the. The gentlemanship and the. The class that boxing brings.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: Where? I love UFC, don't we?

Paul Cohalan: I was about to ask you that. So you like all the other disciplines?

Jackson England: Oh, yeah, absolutely. There's definitely a place for it. Like, I'm not going to sit here and say, oh, if someone got me in a re. Naked choke, I'd know what to do. No, I'm.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah. That's what I do.

Jackson England: If someone got me on the floor. The only time I'm on the floor is when I'M with my partner. That's like. I'm not bloody rolling around with a bloke.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: But if we're standing up, sweet. But I'll tell you what a leg kicking. It was funny. I was talking to Wes. Kids. Capper.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. He's coming on next week.

Jackson England: Is he? Yeah. I love Wes.

Paul Cohalan: He's such a legend.

Jackson England: Wes is a man. Wes hates being kicked. And I said to him, why do you do it then? And he goes, oh, it's good to kick someone, but I hate getting kicked.

Paul Cohalan: Is that right? Yeah, I'll ask him about that. Yeah.

Jackson England: So, yeah, I was like, I said to him because he fought on my undercard in Adelaide in thing and I got a chance to fight. We fought together local as well. Like, where's the man? And. And like, I asked him, I said, man, because he goes from Eternal to boxing to bloody kickboxing to everything. And he started to keep boxing, I'm pretty sure. And he's just said. He goes, oh, getting kicks sucks. I said, why? Why do you do it? Then he goes, oh, yeah, that love kicking. I've been kicked in sparring a few times by some Thai boxes like over the years.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And that hurts. And even my coach, because he comes from a Thai boxing background as well, a beard.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: He's kicked me while I'm punching the bag. He's kicked me in the stomach. Gets me all laying on my back. He stomped my stomp my stomach and like.

Paul Cohalan: So you. You obviously know some of the MMA guys, like. And I think I said it to you last week. I'm good mates with Marcus McKeever.

Jackson England: Yes. Macca maka.

Paul Cohalan: We're in the Navy together.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: See, we're in recruit school together. Yeah.

Jackson England: Macca was. He was. Or he's supported me from my very first pro fight.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Like, he's been there early days. I'll still go down in. When I'm in Mandurah. I'll go pop in. I'll see him.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: Mac is the best.

Paul Cohalan: Him and Mel are such legends.

Jackson England: Yeah, they're so good. They're awesome. You know, even they've got some good fighters coming out. They do like local fight show in Mandurah now. I've been to the very first one.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And it was awesome. Like bringing that to Mandurah as well. Like. Well, the idea was to bring grassroots. Yeah. Well, the idea was to bring a big fight show to Mandurah, but unfortunately just don't have the facility that we needed for big. The big fights and stuff, you know. Like where hopefully they do.

Paul Cohalan: We. We sponsor it and do the insurance for it. Because I own Combat Sports Insurance. So Mac is like. He's always supported me as well and I've done the same with him. Even when he was back in the. In the shed. When it was next gen.

Jackson England: Yes.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, Originally. Yeah.

Jackson England: Yes.

Paul Cohalan: And you know, he's been through a journey. He. He will come on. He was going to be my first, but he's just trying to organize with him. He's fine.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: He'll message me. He did about four nights ago. What are you up to? We're going to catch up. We must do that every three, four weeks and we don't like nothing in. But he's such a legend.

Jackson England: I do that with how many people? Yep. When are you coming down this way even? There's a mate of mine who lives. He lives in Ellenbrook but has a car dealership in Wangara. The only time I go there is to around because I go there and I just go annoy them and they. We all just laugh together. But legit.

Paul Cohalan: How good.

Jackson England: Oh, it's fun. But like the only time I'm there is if I'm like coming up to do stuff like this or driving up and doing whatever. I'm like, hey, what are you doing? I'm at nothing. I'll come. I'll drive another 40 minutes just to come see at Wangara.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: And I hang out for a couple of hours just to kill time and then elsewhere. Yeah, that's what you do when you live in.

Paul Cohalan: So what's your day look like? Like actually first we'll go back. When's your next fight?

Jackson England: So the next fight it was. So we'll go back a little bit. So what's actually meant to be here for June? A few promotional issues. A few things went down. I won't go too detailed.

Paul Cohalan: Is it always. Where do you fight now? What's the promotion you fight under? Or is it different?

Jackson England: So my management is my. My uncle, the Thornberry Promotions and stuff. But like as a promoter, I don't have a promoter because the management promotion thing has got to be either one or the other. You can't have like. You can't be a manager slash promoter and owner fighter.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Okay.

Jackson England: That's like. That's a rule that you made after Don King was doing that with everybody.

Paul Cohalan: Y.

Jackson England: Which is. They've changed that up now. But so the promotion aspect. So the fight was meant to be here on a show called Pathway.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, I went and seen him.

Jackson England: Yeah. So I fought On Pathway for my.

Paul Cohalan: We done the insurance for it. Yeah.

Jackson England: So I fought a pathway and all good. It was all sweet. And then were organizing for the world title eliminator. It was going to be in Kazakhstan because my opponent's from Kazakhstan.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And it was meant to be there October last year. We've been. This is the annoying thing. We've been in negotiations for this eliminator since July last year. That's how annoying this is. And we applied for the eliminator, not the Kazakhs. We did October 25th in Kazakhstan. Four weeks out. They said on, can we move it to December? Move it to December. Four weeks out from there or three weeks out from then they said, oh, we don't have the funding. We can't do it. Okay, sweet. Let the Pathway guys know at their last fight show in at the convention center that, oh, we organised the fight, we're trying thing. They got on board and then I think there was a few promotional issues. They wanted to push the fight back. Kazakhs carried on, almost put everything in jeopardy for the Eliminator. Now it looks like September 23rd. Third for the Eliminator. Whether it's whereabouts, I think they're tying up. Obviously the dates didn't match up for here because HPC and RAC are busy, although the dates don't fall into place. So I think we're thinking Brisbane now, but on a much bigger platform. Way bigger than what. What Pathway was going to originally be. So it's even bigger than what? Yeah, way bigger. So we televised like 132 countries worldwide.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, wow.

Jackson England: Matchroom potentially be involved like Eddie Hearn and stuff. But I can't say too much because we're waiting outside my contract. I've done that. So I've done part for that. So. But yeah, September 23rd in Brisbane, I'm pretty sure.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: Yeah, that'll be the next one.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Wow.

Jackson England: Okay. World title limited. Good undercard as well. Two of my cousins on all three of my. Potentially three of my cousins on the undercard as well. Yeah. So it should be massive. Massive.

Paul Cohalan: That's awesome. Yeah, it. I'll keep an eye on, man. It would be good because I got my business partners over there and I got people over in Queensland.

Jackson England: Just come over.

Paul Cohalan: Just come over and watch it. That'd be good.

Jackson England: Come over and hang out with.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, that'd be awesome.

Jackson England: Yeah, it'd be mad.

Paul Cohalan: Yep. Yeah. Out of Brizzy. Yeah, that'd be great.

Jackson England: So Brisbane or Gold Coast? I'm not too sure. Yeah, either one they're saying they're a couple of hours drive, so.

Paul Cohalan: Yep. Yeah.

Jackson England: From each other.

Paul Cohalan: Got clients and everything over there. So I'll get over there a fair bit. The other thing I was going to ask you. So do you do anything else? Are you just training?

Jackson England: No, just. I'm in a position now where I just full time train. Like it's been like the last couple of years I've been able to just train full time.

Paul Cohalan: Have you got a lot of sponsors and stuff? Is that what keeps it going or is it the fights? Is it.

Jackson England: It's the fights. But it's only because, like I'm getting the money where I should have in the thing. But at the same time I, I enjoy helping. So like I still, like in between my own training, I'll hold pads for guys down in Mandurah. Yeah, anything like that. Sometimes friends of mine up this way, like a couple of the boys, I'll go to their gym, hold pads for them.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: But I just enjoy that. It's a little bit extra cash as well. But I, I like to keep busy so I, I just do it out of myself.

Paul Cohalan: I really love NWA and I learned this from Matt Macca, from Marcus McKeever. You know, obviously between him, Ben Vickers at owns Eternal. Good mates for Ben with the Same birthday actually. April 16th. Yeah. And you know, you got Jackson, that and Ryan and they all like, they cross over and go to each other's gym a lot. Like I remember when I first met Ben, Macca actually introduced me. You know, Maca used to go up and do some coaching training or they go back down and Yeah, I think it's really cool that they all cross over.

Jackson England: You meant to, like, at the end of the day, this stigma of, oh, gyms don't associate with other gyms and this and that, that's so backwards. Because at the end of the day, like any. All the people I've moved around with, whether it be Sydney, Brisbane, like even like I look at the relationship me and George Kambosos have, like, I've got the main sparring partner, he's for two or three of his world title fights.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, have you? Yeah.

Jackson England: And to be able to have him as a friend, but also make the friends alongside with him and like be around someone like him who's achieved one of the biggest things in Australia.

Paul Cohalan: There's so much more out of it.

Jackson England: There's so much more, but like there's so many. There's this stigma of our ego and carrying on like, oh, we don't associate with that gym. And this and that. When you lead into a fight, whether it be anybody, not only thank the sponsors, thank the people, thank your coach, thank your team.

Paul Cohalan: Fucking opposition.

Jackson England: But it's opposition. But it's also the people who helped you get ready, the sparring partners, all the work.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: And I'm very big on community, so, like everybody building and getting better together like I was last night. I was out of the gym in Rocco sparring a young kid. And he messaged me last night saying, thank you for the stuff. I said, dude, don't thank me. At the end of the day, I get a chance to work on stuff I want to work on. But you also get to work on the shit you need to work on.

Paul Cohalan: Is it? I see, I see it like business. Right. So two things there. Culture.

Jackson England: Yep.

Paul Cohalan: So it comes from the top, old school gyms. Some are like, we don't associate with them. They can change that. And the other bit is it's like business. Everyone's got their own model and style. Yeah. Like you go and jumping into another gym or, you know, I've talked to Maca about this before, or they come into, you know, your gym. It's like you, when you learn a different perspective or you get. It puts you out of your comfort zone a bit because you're used to going and doing the same routine a lot of the time. But I'm just having a different style. And I'm guessing you grow out of that. Like, you learn more.

Jackson England: Yeah. Well, you need to be open minded because from a fight perspective, like, there's a lot of attributes and a lot of different things you can take from different people. And like I was talking to a young kid. Not last night, I'd say earlier in the day at a different gym. I just finished up training myself and I was talking to him, I said, the more you can take on from film study, from other coaches, from different people. And it's not about you not being loyal to a coach, it's about you learning different things. And even if it's something you look at and like, oh, that's stupid. I'll never use. Use that. Have it in your ass.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Be open minded.

Jackson England: Be open minded. Keep it in your kit. Because there might be a day or a fight where that comes in handy. It's like, wow, I never thought I'd ever use.

Paul Cohalan: It works for someone else. Yeah, so.

Jackson England: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So like. And people have different perspectives. There's some things that are very silly that really don't wouldn't necessarily work in that sort of sense, but it may fit somewhere.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: And you can interpret it in your own way. That's the beauty of it.

Paul Cohalan: I'm always like. And we do it with insurance broking, like we always help each other out. Right. Like not everyone but most. And if anyone rang me even it was amazing competitor, like I'd always like go, hey, this is my opinion or how I, you know, whatever.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: I'm always like, even if you don't agree, if you take 10% out of it. Yeah, that little nugget, there might be a soft little nugget in there that you roll into something else, you know. Yeah. Whatever it is.

Jackson England: Yeah, it's a massive benefit regardless. And being able to be open minded and take away that ego of like, oh whatever. It's just been open to the fact of just learning. We're always learning as we are like even through boxing now, like what as nine years of professional now. Like the grateful thing is I've had the great support from my parents, my family, you know, believed in myself, pushing myself to the biggest limits and everything like that. And I'll never give up on that sense. But even when it comes to like sponsors and different people and stuff as well, like me and my family, we've done it all basically ourselves.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Like and my parents have their own business in Mandurah and they do their stuff but the sacrifices they've made in order for me early on have been phenomenal and like I'm grateful every day for the, what they've done to help me chase my dream because I do the same for my kids. But even with that like we've had nothing but we've only had like little local sponsors, couple of bucks here and there, nothing major. I look at some of the guys in Sydney, Brisbane, different places who have gotten major corporate sponsors. It's mind blowing to me because it's not saying you don't need it but it helps. Anything helps. Anything helps. That's why like even with this fight that was meant to be in June, but now obviously moved to September, we got a bunch of like local guys, people that I've friends with, personal relationships and they've helped out, they've jumped on board a couple, like a couple hundred bucks here and there and stuff and like that's because they're friends and people like that and that's what, that's what they're willing to as well. And I don't make them Feel bad about it. I'm not saying like, oh well that's not going to work and all that because I just appreciate the support regardless.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: You know, and we put them all on the back of my fight shirts and stuff and like all the logos there. Anybody who's willing to support more and do more, we're to it. But now we've never had that luxury. And regardless, I'm never going to separate myself from a point where, oh, we need that. We can make it happen.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: You know, community support, everything around, we can still make those things happen. It's just got to be. Everyone's got to be on the same page.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Everyone can help each other out, you know, like build together. Yeah, that's what it's about, you know.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, definitely, mate. I'd be really open to get behind your next one for sure with probably with the journey more than. And then all combat sports insurance blew.

Jackson England: It on my face.

Paul Cohalan: Yep. Mate, we'll chat about it outside this what I really want to know and I struggle with this. Like I could be focused and disciplined but I end up being a bit of a roller coaster and like different things. Mainly business that I'm more locked in but like the whole fitness side I can see. I know how hard it is but you live and breathe it. Or not. Not just the fitness but you know, your health, your food, your fitness, the training. What's your day look like now that wow, this is your focus. You're coming up September, like what are we a few months out?

Jackson England: Like what's my really my day? If I don't have people like to hold pads with just to keep myself busy, hold pads, do whatever through the day I'll normally just, you know, like I wake up, train that morning, whether it be real early or whether it would be like around like mid morning. Ish.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And where it changes like through the certain days. So like whether it be strength conditioning, whether it be technical boxing training or be sprints or just a run or different stuff like that. And obviously it's about not peaking too early. So you do everything at the right time. Time. But from what I said, maybe.

Paul Cohalan: So.

Jackson England: Even I've always got either my voice or my coach's voice in the back of my head like nut you can go and then it's trying to turn that off. So a good thing I like to say is like, is through that week and through even like a day, even today. Like so this morning I listened to something I probably should do and I took this morning off But I'm going to go train straight after and I've got to go to the car tomorrow and I've got to go spar again tonight. Yeah, and then I'll go home and stuff.

Paul Cohalan: So where were you trained now? Back down that way or.

Jackson England: No, I've got a few people around this sort of area. I'll just go to one of their gyms and I'll do.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, cool.

Jackson England: Part of their program.

Paul Cohalan: Who are you, who are you connected with up here? Like obviously you know most but yeah,.

Jackson England: There's a few gyms up here, like a few things. So like this morning I'll do a bit of strength work so I might even go to one of the gyms down near Scarborough or I might even go one of the gyms down in Mount Lawley down there.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, cool.

Jackson England: Do a bit of strength work and then yeah, make my way back to Cannington.

Paul Cohalan: Awesome.

Jackson England: Go do chiro and then slowly run my way back because there's a good gym down to Rocco where there's a young pro kid that I normally spar with and he's early in his career, he's only had like four or five pro fights but he's very technically good and a bit bigger, bit heavier. I don't normally spa people my own size I find because I'm very physically strong. I like the spa. The heavier. Yeah, I enjoy it more and also because being heavy handed it helps. But there's really, there's what I will always say, there's so much talent here in Perth.

Paul Cohalan: Is there really?

Jackson England: Yeah, so much talent like there's so much unmissed like people who don't say it. Like anyone who comes from Perth and goes fights in Sydney, anywhere else, they always say what do they put in the water in Perth?

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Is that right?

Jackson England: Yeah, they do because we're so how.

Paul Cohalan: Do, how do we get that out?

Jackson England: Well that's the recognized, more recognized thing. Like even someone, a really kind coach by Bobby who messaged me a couple of weeks ago and stuff and he mentioned about like, you know, like the stigma of putting things out there. Like you know, you got Danny Green face of Australian boxing but also, you know, Perth born and bred here, does his thing, had great world title fights here in Perth, shared the ring of greats in his career. Mean I was actually at Danny's, no longer training with him and his son. Yeah, a good young amateur who's actually turning pro soon as well named Rory and we're vibing out, hanging out. Danny's the man his Son's great as well. They're. They're all amazing people.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Just a privilege to be around them. But Danny used to be in my dressing rooms watching me warm up early in my career as well.

Paul Cohalan: Oh, awesome.

Jackson England: So Danny's always had been there, support me. But then you got Daniel Dawson. Yep. Buddy. He won the. He's gone back and forth from boxing, kickboxing, everything, and he's a. He's a phenomenal fighter. Danny's. Daniel Dawson's the man as well. Like, they're both.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, he's such a legend.

Jackson England: And I had a guy named Bobby who helped get Daniel Dawson ready. He was one of his coaches. And even he said as well, he was like, he got goes, mate, like, for you to bring in, like, world title eliminator and do all this sort of stuff, like, it puts you on the cusp of, like, on a level like them. I was like, oh, I'm not anywhere near that level yet. You know, the day where I can achieve what I want to do, you know, my biggest dream in my division is to be undisputed, which means have all the world titles at the same time. Be undisputed in my division. And then if it means move up to lightweight after that and do the same there, that'd be a dream come true for me.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Wow. You know, the world title is a dream enough, but me being the workhorse I am.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And wanting more for myself, it's not enough.

Paul Cohalan: All of it. Two levels.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: That's not enough. You know, like, I'd love to achieve, you know, win two world titles in different sanctioning bodies and I mean, different divisions as time goes on. But I'd love to be able to unify and be undisputed at the division I'm at, because I don't think there's been a unified or undisputed champion in my division for a long time now.

Paul Cohalan: It must be pretty cool that, you know, obviously growing up, you would have watched Danny a lot and followed Danny. He would have been an inspiration, all that kind of stuff. And he. And he's an Aussie legend as well. Even, like, I've only met him a couple of times and spoke to him and just. Just his lingo and everything. He's a typical Aussie. Right. And he supports it a lot.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: And then doing the flip now, like, you know, having him in there like, that must be pretty.

Jackson England: It's amazing, you know, massive. We even, like, you know, meeting. Getting the chance to meet Anthony Mundine.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Even when my. Even when my uncle Rick bloody. When he won the world title. When like he won the world title in 95 against Rob Carr. Like I'd love to be able to go back and like watch.

Paul Cohalan: Wow. Yeah.

Jackson England: But like I've seen it. He fought Joe Calzaghe, fought Anthony Mundine. Been like looking at these people. Even had the chance to meet Tyson Fury when he came to Melbourne. Joseph Parker, phenomenal fighter.

Paul Cohalan: How good that must give you a lot of that. Like that's what fills your cup, right?

Jackson England: It does. Oh, like and being able to mix and match with all these sort of people, like I'm blessed, so blessed with what I've had to see and be George Kambosos. Like.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, been around George and like seeing good mates.

Jackson England: Oh man, George, that's unreal. He's the man, you know, he's the best. And like being able to see his work ethic and his world class.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: And being able to share that with him as well.

Paul Cohalan: You must get a little bit out of them. Well, you do you obviously, I can tell. But to being able to get that little bit out of all these people is unbelievable. And then to build your own style, you know, whatever you do, routine, everything, it's cool, you know.

Jackson England: And like going from like even that daily basis, like it looks like even as a young kid I'd always be late for school because I'd be running in the morning or I'd run to school or I'd like thinking like I'd always live that old school mentality of, you know, you train twice a day, three times a day even. And always making sure your film study, you're technically sound, you're this and that. Like always there, always knowing that your conditioning and your fitness is up to par because there's that big conception of, you know, the real talented, gifted fighters don't work hard enough and then they lose it later on because they're like, oh, it's too hard. I won't try too hard. They just rely only on their ability.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: And then you get the people who are just workhorses and have not real good natural ability, but they'll just train their asses off. Yeah, good to us to an extent. Before a smarter fighter who's got the mix of both will outbox them and be smarter in that sense. So you've got to be two sides of the coin.

Paul Cohalan: So you want to be both, you got to be both.

Jackson England: And whether it's that self ego of not being able to recognize like, okay, I struggle in this attribute, I won't look at that. I'll just do everything I do good. And keep doing that stuff. Me being hard on myself in a. In a healthy way now. Yep.

Paul Cohalan: I look, you'll find the. The less or the weakness go harder. Yeah.

Jackson England: If there's something I. That I'd love it. Yeah. If there's something that I struggle with or something like my coach says, like, oh, hey, you need to do more of that. There's an hour. There's an hour of me doing that because I know. And even little things. Like I was watching. I was at my sister's place the other day and I went from back and forth. I. I watched Sugar Ray Leonard fight.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: And then after I watched that, I was like, oh, we'll watch the Michael Jackson now.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: Michael Jackson on watch that. Started dancing, having a laugh, and then straight back to fights. I was watching another fight, but I was like, just those, like mix and matches of the greatness watching that sort of stuff. Like I live and breathe that. Yeah, I do. Absolutely do. And I get excited even thinking about it.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. That's awesome. Awesome. Yeah. You give me that energy as well. It's usually me giving the energy back the other way, but just everything today you're really appreciative and give you out the energy and grateful. I think favorite that whether it's a challenge or the wins. Which is awesome.

Jackson England: Yeah. And that's how it should be.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. We. I always do a. Well, not always. I started doing like a six month recap.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: So. And I just had it the other day with Dave Clare, which was on my first podcast.

Jackson England: Oh, cool.

Paul Cohalan: So I'll probably lock in. I'll send you an email.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: And for any like, you know, five, six months and if there's nothing in between that we end up doing anything anyway. So I wouldn't mind watching your fight and stuff, but not a lot of people get the people back on. Yeah. I'm like, it's good for the podcast because it gets more content, more, you know, but it's about like, obviously learn a lot about you now, which is awesome. And not just see your name and whatnot. We've got a lot of synergies. So I'll hit you up. It'll be really good. And it'll be really good to go back over your next fight, which is really important. Right. So.

Jackson England: Yeah. No. Well, thank you again.

Paul Cohalan: No, thank you. Other thing. What'd you get out of today? Oh, it's probably a question I always ask.

Jackson England: Yeah. Just good to be Able to sit down and actually talk authentically and just be able to be in a. In a place where it's casual.

Paul Cohalan: It's casual.

Jackson England: It's just like a normal chat.

Paul Cohalan: And I. I'm really grateful that you share that as well and that you were really, you know, you shared a lot, which was good. And it wasn't just the boxing piece, it was the. The hard times as well. And what. It's major. And the next question is who should I get. Get on. Oh, besides Lee? We spoke about Lee.

Jackson England: Yeah, Lee's old shout out top Shelf Entertainment.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah.

Jackson England: For your. For your needs out there.

Paul Cohalan: I guess we didn't even go into that. But another time.

Jackson England: It's another time. It's the next time. Yeah, it's the next time we're going.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. Danny is on my list because I've wrote a list. A couple hundred people out y so I might hit you up one day maybe to chat with him or if there's someone else that you think.

Jackson England: I think there's a lot of really good people here. There's even a good young fighter out this way named Sam Rainey Owen. There's a good fighter as well, you.

Paul Cohalan: Know, who really resonated with me, which would be wicked. Jason, I reckon, if you would. Oh, yeah, mate. For him to have the whole different dynamics of, you know, from being from the training piece, but the holistic and then the, you know, the. The breath work and all that. Yeah, Like, I love all that stuff.

Jackson England: And I think that'd be perfect.

Paul Cohalan: He's got some awesome dynamics there and obviously helps a lot of people.

Jackson England: Yeah. And yeah, Jason, Danny. Daniel Dawson.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah. So I hit doorstop the other night because I do his insurance. I actually sponsored him when he. For John Wayne Parr, when I first started the insurance business.

Jackson England: Oh, how good is that?

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, yeah.

Jackson England: How many years ago is that?

Paul Cohalan: 10.

Jackson England: 10. 10 Years ago. Wow.

Paul Cohalan: I've got. I've actually got a sign framing that. Yeah.

Jackson England: Yeah. How cool is that?

Paul Cohalan: Daniel Dawson. John Way. Yeah.

Jackson England: Wow.

Paul Cohalan: It's cool. Yeah.

Jackson England: Well, yeah, Dawson Green. There's a lot of good local guys here that I reckon you get on the thing.

Paul Cohalan: Me and Danny got similar. I don't know if he does now, but he used to own a Ducati because I remember talking to him about it.

Jackson England: Y.

Paul Cohalan: He went to a mate of mine own Ducati here.

Jackson England: Yeah.

Paul Cohalan: And I bought one. I think he was one of his first customers. But yeah, I think he likes his bikes. I don't know he gets time to rotate.

Jackson England: He does, yeah. Well, yeah, he lives down south now. Far south.

Paul Cohalan: Yeah, he.

Jackson England: I think. I think they still go out riding or surfing or whatever.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: Yeah, I can't surf to save my life.

Paul Cohalan: No, me either.

Jackson England: Stay on the ground.

Paul Cohalan: I'm all good and whole. I probably wouldn't jump out there too quick these days with the old sharks. You fill your bathtub up. Bathtub up. And leave water in there long enough to be a shark.

Jackson England: Wa. No, I'm fine staying where I'm. Where I am. You know, I'm a Sydney boy. I'm not a Bondi boy.

Paul Cohalan: Yep.

Jackson England: I wouldn't even jump in the creek at same area.

Paul Cohalan: All right, man, we'll wrap it up. Hey. Yep. I really appreciate it. Thank you. And thanks very much.

Jackson England: No, thank you. Awesome.